Here, Hear...

[Kev3188]

Chox wins the interwebz. Lulz.

 

[signals]

The DUMB-ifying of society is in full swing. People think the internet and texting make them smarter, but in reality they are becoming dumber. I'll bet Ebonics is starting to look good at this point.

 

[jimntx]

 
 
I would like to know what parameters you are using to justify programming as "entry level". That would be like saying an A&P is "entry level". How about your job as a flight attendant? Is that "entry level"?
 
 
 

Programmer was the "entry level" position for professional staff in the Information Technology Department/Computer Services Department/whatever they were calling my department that year.  Hell, I was even lower.  I started as a Programmer Trainee.  The progression was something like Programmer, Sr. Programmer, Programming/Systems Analyst, Sr. Systems Analyst, Systems Consultant, etc.  She never made it above Sr. Programmer as far as I know because most people didn't know what the hell she was talking or writing about most of the time.  She was from East Texas and prided herself on not knowing much of anything other than how to program computers.  So, she got to program computers for her entire career at Texaco.  She was very well paid, but it was still an entry level position in our department.
 
And, yes by the definition of entry level in most industries--starting job, HS diploma or GED, no previous experience/training required, lower wage.  Yes, flight attendant is an entry level job.  A flight attendant doesn't have to know a thing about the airline business.  It helps, but it ain't required.  And, since from a practical standpoint most flight attendants never progress beyond that, a flight attendant with 40 years experience is doing the same job on a daily basis as a flight attendant with 40 days experience.  The 40 year flight attendant may be better at it (not all of them) but that comes with experience not additional training, etc.  And, if you can be replaced by another person with minimal training--as far as meeting Federal requirements--you are doing an entry level job.  I happen to like mine just fine, and I'm very good at it.

 

[xUT]

irregardless...

 

[Dog Wonder]

irregardless...

Whatever.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Whatever.

Legit

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Programmer was the "entry level" position for professional staff in the Information Technology Department/Computer Services Department/whatever they were calling my department that year.  Hell, I was even lower.  I started as a Programmer Trainee.  The progression was something like Programmer, Sr. Programmer, Programming/Systems Analyst, Sr. Systems Analyst, Systems Consultant, etc.  She never made it above Sr. Programmer as far as I know because most people didn't know what the hell she was talking or writing about most of the time.  She was from East Texas and prided herself on not knowing much of anything other than how to program computers.  So, she got to program computers for her entire career at Texaco.  She was very well paid, but it was still an entry level position in our department.
 
And, yes by the definition of entry level in most industries--starting job, HS diploma or GED, no previous experience/training required, lower wage.  Yes, flight attendant is an entry level job.  A flight attendant doesn't have to know a thing about the airline business.  It helps, but it ain't required.  And, since from a practical standpoint most flight attendants never progress beyond that, a flight attendant with 40 years experience is doing the same job on a daily basis as a flight attendant with 40 days experience.  The 40 year flight attendant may be better at it (not all of them) but that comes with experience not additional training, etc.  And, if you can be replaced by another person with minimal training--as far as meeting Federal requirements--you are doing an entry level job.  I happen to like mine just fine, and I'm very good at it.

Dood, your loosing it.

 

[jimntx]

I have no illusions that I could not be replaced by a new hire at any moment.  All the company has to do is make sure that new hire has completed the FAA-required training and can stand upright most of the time.    That's why I believe in unions.  As a former co-worker of mine once said, "I'm in a union.  They can't fire me."  :blush:

 

[eolesen]

Back in the day, programmers *were* an entry level position, learned on the job and not at a school.

Some companies still take that ab initio approach, thinking it's better to train someone from scratch than it is to discover someone's pre-existing bad habits after they're on payroll.

Some of my best programmers were guys hired with no formal training. Technically speaking, I've only had 10 days of training as a programmer, even though I worked as one for almost ten years.

It's simple - if you can't communicate effectively, you'll never be promoted.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Or as a cynic in my work group says, "All you need is a good line of Bullsh*t and you'll go far".

 

[jimntx]

Or, as I once heard..."All you need is sincerity.  If you can fake that, you got it made."

 

[eolesen]

Both statements = entirely accurate...

 

[SparrowHawk]

Or, as I once heard..."All you need is sincerity.  If you can fake that, you got it made."

 
I've heard that one as well.. When I was with Xerox I damn near got fired over this response to "We really need your opinion on this" and I replied, "Do you want the answer you want to hear or my opinion because they're different"?
 
A 45 minute lecture on being a "team player" ensued. I was informed there is no "I" in Team to which I replied, "Correct, but there is a "me" in there" If my career was the stock market that was October 1929 for me.

 

[777 fixer]

Some companies still take that ab initio approach, thinking it's better to train someone from scratch than it is to discover someone's pre-existing bad habits after they're on payroll.

 

 
Companies would rather train people to their own standard of bad habits.  

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Well if you..." AXE " me, yea, it is a good thread.
 
OR,
 
" I want to thank........"Y 'ALL " for a least givin' me an 'internalview'  !!
 
(Kinda' figured that by now, a certain 'cooler member from western pennsylvania would have  'checked-in' by now ) !!!