From A Mec Rep

[USA320Pilot]

According to Boston Captain Rep Garland Jones, "with a possible Chapter 11 filing in the very near future, no agreement with the company, and thus no protection whatsoever for this pilot group going into bankruptcy. And what's at stake? According to our legal and financial advisors, our entire contract in now in grave jeopardy, including Scope (alter-ego airlines flying our A-320's), Fragmentation Protections (at 15% trigger, the best in the industry), and Seniority Rights (thus allowing a furlough out of seniority, according to equipment type).

In short, we have been briefed by our advisors that upon entering bankruptcy, the company will go before the judge with a 1113 proceeding that increases their ask by 125-150%, vacates our entire exiting contract, and without any profit sharing or equity participation possibilities. Moreover, they continued, the maximum amount of leverage to strike a deal is now, while outside bankruptcy, because upon entering a Chapter 11 the world changes for the company once again, with forces outside their control (the ATSB, creditors, and DIP and exit fund providers) then able to exert considerable influence in shaping the outcome.

Moreover, both our advisors and Bruce Lakefield are in agreement that without an agreement with the pilots prior to going into a Chapter 11, the risk of liquidation becomes significantly higher. How much higher? Bruce Lakefield gave us a 5% chance of survival under those circumstances, with Michael Glanzer giving us even less.

These arguments apparently fell on deaf ears with the PIT and PHL Reps, and with 3 members of the NC, for, even as late as today, there still appears to be no sense of urgency by these parties to reach a TA with the company."

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Seems that conclusion is "hypothetical" at best. So, you would rather the union do a chop job on your contract instead? Give it up. And, FWIW, that little ditty in another thread about what may or may not appear in a newspaper tomorrow is inflammatory. I hope you've retained counsel.

 

[Rico]

Well since anyone's guess from this point is "hypothetical", I'll say it again...

IMO Midatlantic is the "reset button".

No scope = Airbuses at MDA
No fragmentation = All worthwhile assets to MDA
No Senority Rights = Take the pilots you need, drop the rest.



I will also make another guess...

Whatever happens will directly involve John Ornstein and his partners calling the shots after taking over in BK.

 

[Oliver Twist]

Whatever happens will directly involve John Ornstein and his partners calling the shots after taking over in BK.

[post="176755"][/post]​

Funny how "Johnny O's" name keeps coming in here always in such a derragatory(sp) tone too. My personal opinion, I don't like him nor do I trust him. Seems like a Lorenzo wanna-be to me.

There's 2 cents more in opinions!

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Oliver Twist, you're right. Also, the Jets For Jobs aka J4J is sarcastically termed Jets For Jonathan.

 

[Rico]

Hey, it is just a WAG on my part, and not mean to be derogatory, but...

Mr Ornstein has been part and parcel of many of the events before now (behind the scenes), and I just cannot see him missing such an opportunity to make some serious cash off of either Mesa-izing Airways, or pulling a "Gordon Gekko" and splitting us up.

Either way, big payoff for him. (and any partners)

Just a guess, but not too far fetched of one.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Hey seems to me ALPA is on the road to become, um how do you say it a320?, oh yeah, irrelevant.

 

[michael707767]

USA320pilot,
the bottom line is this. I talked to a pilot on the ramp today. He seemed to fully understand all the possible consequences. But, he said he has given enough and will not willingly give more. He was willing to risk whatever the outcome may be. He also mentioned, and I agree with him, that there would be nothing preventing the company from gutting any agreement you make once they go into CH11 anyway. So what is the point?

 

[phillyguy]

USA320pilot,
the bottom line is this. I talked to a pilot on the ramp today. He seemed to fully understand all the possible consequences. But, he said he has given enough and will not willingly give more. He was willing to risk whatever the outcome may be. He also mentioned, and I agree with him, that there would be nothing preventing the company from gutting any agreement you make once they go into CH11 anyway. So what is the point?

[post="176812"][/post]​

But I don't understand what risk there is to compare or weigh. Risk means there is an unknown - and it seems like a given that without an agreement the outcome is most likely liquidation. So what is the unknown? Or do people think mgt is bluffing? You may not like the alternatives but one certainly has a defined outcome

 

[nycbusdriver]

According to Boston Captain Rep Garland Jones,

[post="176746"][/post]​

Like anyone with a brain believes anything Garland Jones has to say.

 

[jack mama]

michael707767,
Talk is cheap, I wonder how he would vote in secrecy!!! Ask any mech (or any labor member) how they voted and all you hear are NOs, yet it passed with a majority!!

 

[Phantom Fixer]

michael707767,
Talk is cheap, I wonder how he would vote in secrecy!!! Ask any mech (or any labor member) how they voted and all you hear are NOs, yet it passed with a majority!!

[post="176833"][/post]​

jackmama,

What was was..and what will be? , remains to be seen.

Sure a lot of people talked out of both ends during the first two concessionary phases...but in my opinion it was hardly a majority on anyones but ALPA.

Many thought No but voted otherwise in a false sense of hope for the future at the time..but we have all seen what people with limited leadership and managing skills can do with an extra billion or so to work with.

With that fact in mind , Do Not assume a repeat performance on anyones part this time around. I think ALPA holding the line against these folks speaks greatly about how the masses feel about how we've all been treated and how OUR company has been run into the ground.

Few if any are willing to just give again...when giving only leads to further taking outside of the spirit of any contracts or agrrements reached with the leadership of this company.

Once bitten...or even twice bitten , don't think the third time or a forth will be charm for Bronner or anyone else whom neglects to run the business while paying out millions for fly by night failures in CCY.

 

[ojxux]

Moreover, both our advisors and Bruce Lakefield are in agreement that without an agreement with the pilots prior to going into a Chapter 11, the risk of liquidation becomes significantly higher. How much higher? Bruce Lakefield gave us a 5% chance of survival under those circumstances, with Michael Glanzer giving us even less.

THE SKY IS FALLING. THE SKY IS FALLING.

 

[jack mama]

Did you say masses??? 3 individuals out of 3,500 pilots and 28,000 employees hardly represents the masses. The only way to know for sure is to put it to a vote....

 

[Phantom Fixer]

Did you say masses??? 3 individuals out of 3,500 pilots and 28,000 employees hardly represents the masses. The only way to know for sure is to put it to a vote....

[post="176848"][/post]​

Yes, I did use the term masses.....as you see , no other group other than ALPA and it's 3,500 members has been eager to join in talks with the company..and the reasons for it are as I have stated before.

We have all seen what our concessions have netted us so far. We pump our comparitively meager wages and benefits back into the company...and they in turn pump it into the pockets of a select few whom could not lead a horse to water , much less make it drink. Then they are rewarded with millions when they are shown the door (Literally or Figuratively)

No vote required to try to un-ravel the facts of what's taken place