Flight Attendants fired

[jimntx]

Bob, with the Blessed Order of the Perpetually-Trip Removed (dba APFA) at AA, it just ain't so. May I quote from Article 15, Section A, paragraph 2 (page 183) of the CBA...

"The Company shall have the right to discharge or lay off any Flight Attendant during the probationary period without cause and without hearing."

The courts would not entertain a DFR suit because I took the job even though that paragraph is in the contract. I.E., I "accepted" the terms of employment as stated in the contract.

 

[nbmcg01]

Bob, with the Blessed Order of the Perpetually-Trip Removed (dba APFA) at AA, it just ain't so. May I quote from Article 15, Section A, paragraph 2 (page 183) of the CBA...

"The Company shall have the right to discharge or lay off any Flight Attendant during the probationary period without cause and without hearing."

The courts would not entertain a DFR suit because I took the job even though that paragraph is in the contract. I.E., I "accepted" the terms of employment as stated in the contract.

You're considered an employee, "at will". Your union protection is re: contractual working rules. Actually, the Co does not have to furlough probationers. They can be terminated. Young adults had better learn to watch what they put on MySpace. Many HR depts. search during the hiring process.

 

[PHX-F/A]

Not true, if they are paying dues they are entitled to union representation and covered under the contract.

Most contracts allow for a "probationary period" where the standards for dismissal are much lower than "Just Cause" but the member is still entitled to representation.

The America West contract doesn't allow a F/A to join until they have successfully passed their probationary period. I thought that was an industry standard...

 

[Flying Titan]

YOU GUYS ARE ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL STUPID!!!!

so deal with the fact that us YOUNG people have an effin myspace and we can put whatever F&*( we want on it.

its simple:
GROW UP AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS

NO...It's you who is stupid (whoever you are). If you put something out on the internet for ALL to see, then "it's simple" you're making it other people's business. Only a moron goes out partying in a company uniform and then expects that the company won't care about an image that it spends millions to create and promote...especially when there are pictures!

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, with the Blessed Order of the Perpetually-Trip Removed (dba APFA) at AA, it just ain't so. May I quote from Article 15, Section A, paragraph 2 (page 183) of the CBA...

"The Company shall have the right to discharge or lay off any Flight Attendant during the probationary period without cause and without hearing."

The courts would not entertain a DFR suit because I took the job even though that paragraph is in the contract. I.E., I "accepted" the terms of employment as stated in the contract.

Obviously you didnt read what I wrote, maybe nmbc's explaination cleared it up for you. If they take your money you are entitled to representation, probation or not.

 

[jimntx]

Obviously you didnt read what I wrote, maybe nmbc's explaination cleared it up for you. If they take your money you are entitled to representation, probation or not.

Exactly what part of "without cause and without hearing" do you not understand? If there isn't even a termination hearing, perhaps you could enlighten me on exactly where the union would represent me even if they are willing which they are not. Meeting me at the front door and patting me on the back and telling me to write when I find work, is not my idea of representation.

And, nbmcg01 simply backed up what I was saying. An "at will" employee is the same as a non-union employee. What she was saying is that during the probationary period, if the company tried to send me out on an illegal trip--which they did when I was on probation--the union has to represent me because it affects the work rules of all members.

At the time, however, the union refused to help me. Their suggestion was to go ahead and fly the trip, THEN contact my base rep to address the issue. Of course, since it was the weekend there was no one at the Mother House of the BOPTR other than the person who told me to fly the trip.

I handled it myself by calling back to scheduling and quoting the applicable page and paragraph from the CBA. They relented and removed the trip from my schedule--not willingly, but they did remove it.

 

[Bob Owens]

Exactly what part of "without cause and without hearing" do you not understand? If there isn't even a termination hearing, perhaps you could enlighten me on exactly where the union would represent me even if they are willing which they are not. Meeting me at the front door and patting me on the back and telling me to write when I find work, is not my idea of representation.

And, nbmcg01 simply backed up what I was saying. An "at will" employee is the same as a non-union employee. What she was saying is that during the probationary period, if the company tried to send me out on an illegal trip--which they did when I was on probation--the union has to represent me because it affects the work rules of all members.

At the time, however, the union refused to help me. Their suggestion was to go ahead and fly the trip, THEN contact my base rep to address the issue. Of course, since it was the weekend there was no one at the Mother House of the BOPTR other than the person who told me to fly the trip.

I handled it myself by calling back to scheduling and quoting the applicable page and paragraph from the CBA. They relented and removed the trip from my schedule--not willingly, but they did remove it.

If your contract does not have a "just cause clause" then you are "at will", union or non-union. Many contracts waive the just cause clause for a probationary period,its part of the contract, but from the minute you are on payroll you are covered by the contract in its entirety and you are entitled to representation.

While most unions would not take a probationary termination case to arbitration (because the company doesnt have to prove just cause, but many states require some reason for dumping employees on to Unemployment Insurance) it does not mean that they cant represent you. Even if there is no hearing your union should address management and find out why the worker is being terminated. Then they can argue in behalf of the worker. Its been done before. While the union has little recourse through the arbitration process the fact that they have the membership is another strategy they can use. If the termination was unfair the workers can and would likly agree to pressure the company. It happened at local 562 when the company went to fire someone who was a good worker and well liked by his coworkers. The union informed management that the guys would not be happy with the unfair treatment this worker recieved and would view the incident as an attack against them. The worker was reinstated.The union did its job, they took represented him and the members. If a union doesnt do anything, not even find out why the worker was terminated then they should be sued for DFR.

 

[jimntx]

Bob, all that is real good in theory, but remember that theory is where the rubber meets the sky. And, I'm not disputing what labor law might say about union representation. But, remember I am talking about the Blessed Order of the Perpetually-Trip Removed (dba, APFA). And, remember that their world view is that until you have at least 20 years seniority, your duty to the union is to pay your dues and keep your mouth shut.

Now, for the last time...
When I was in training in the Summer of 2000, an APFA rep came to class one day to have us all sign our membership cards and (of course) the payroll deduction form for our dues. In talking to the class about union services, it was made clear by the APFA rep that if we were terminated during probation "there was nothing the union could or would do for us." Now whether they should or not doesn't matter. After 5000 years of fighting among those Semitic first cousins, there should be peace in the Middle East, but there's not.

And, yes, a probationary f/a might have legal recourse for this lack of help from the "union", but if you have been in Dallas in training for 5.5 weeks with no income, where are you going to get the money to pursue that legal action?