Flight Attendant

[num1bearsfan]

Well, it has somewhat educated me on the facts about SWA F/A's, even though I haven't really learned anything... So, do you have every airlines payscale and agreement with you for F/A's?? I'm just curious of the top out and benefits comparison. That way I can go back to the Delta F/A's, and any other for that matter, and set them straight when they tell me such stories

Delta's top to scale pay after 12 years is $43.57 per hour.

Southwest's top of scale pay after 14 years is $52 per "trip". (A trip constitutes 233 miles flown)

The breakdown is (based on minimums) approximately that a Delta FA would earn $3,268 per month and a Southwest FA would earn $4,822.

Southwest FAs are scheduled for a max duty day of 10.5 hours. Delta FAs can be scheduled for 14 hours.

On average Southwest FAs fly shorter trips for higher pay.. More time off, less time at work.

 

[buscador]

Well, it has somewhat educated me on the facts about SWA F/A's, even though I haven't really learned anything... So, do you have every airlines payscale and agreement with you for F/A's?? I'm just curious of the top out and benefits comparison. That way I can go back to the Delta F/A's, and any other for that matter, and set them straight when they tell me such stories

Well lets clear this up for everyone,, dont know where you heard that there are classes every month..simply not true...There was over 2 years without a new hire class,, there were 4-5 classes this year..expect 2 classes next year at most,, those classes will be mostly internal employees switching dept's.

.... So over a 4 year period of time something like 8-10 classes of flight attendants.... The attrition rate at SWA is less than 1%( I have heard)... The hiring is coming mostly to cover new vacation weeks accrued,, (so many sticking around accruing more)

So a 1-5year fa- gets 2 weeks vacation,,, 5th year 3 weeks vacation, 10th year - 4 weeks vacation,,18th year 5 weeks vacation

SWA top out is a little more than $56 a TRIP not hour,,, there are no maximums, no minimums ,, only rule is,, you have to have 24 hours off in a seven day period...Time and a half(VJA) at the end of the month and the beginning of each month,, for those who work the system...

guaranteed minimum 13 days off per 30day month,,14 days off on 31 day month,,most lines have 16-18 days off a month,, unlimited trading and picking up(as long as you have the 24 hours off per 7 days),,so you can fill your schedule and work just about everyday if you wish...(again 24 hours off in 7) or give away as much as you wish and take time off,,some people work 0 days per month and maintain health and travel benefits(again flexibility)

Depending on the knowledge of the system and how they work it,, a senior F/A at SWA will have far more days off a year than a normal 9-5 er and other F/As..... and make over a 100k a year,... run that by the international delta girls,, who have to work with max and minimums....,, they simply dont have the flexibility or the productivity to compare,,, thats what the AT group doesnt understand yet, well I should say for the Pilots and F/A's,, the other groups I cant speak for,,

So if you see a Senior F/A that is working a VJA(time and a half) trip, they are making between $450-$600 a DAY.. SWA has 3 types of pairings....a 3 day is the longest pairing, 2 day pairings and turns being the shortest... 3x $600 =1800$ ,, not to bad for unskilled labor..

Another example..New years EVE is a double time day,, so a f/a gets a VJA 3 day pairing,,, pays 22 trips(which is average),,,add the time and half = 11trips, add extra 6 trips for new years eve,,=39 trips total,, + per diem $100-125..., that 3 day trip Pays roughly $2,309 ...or $769 per DAY

Its more about the Flexibility and productivity than comparing the hourly/trip pay... At SWA you have a CHOICE.,,,


That concludes this seminar hope you paid attention,, CLASS Dismissed...

 

[NAPAUS]

BRAVO, Exactly unskilled labor... that will end someday VERY soon, the bubble will burst - just wait and see.
Btw, DL Int'l and UA Int'l ~ NO COMPARISON to being a workhouse DOG working the DREAMY 737, up down, up down...blah blah blah.
DAMN- we're exhausted thinkin about it...
BTW, see how it feels...Don't put down another airline unless you've been there!

 

[buscador]

BRAVO, Exactly unskilled labor... that will end someday VERY soon, the bubble will burst - just wait and see.
Btw, DL Int'l and UA Int'l ~ NO COMPARISON to being a workhouse DOG working the DREAMY 737, up down, up down...blah blah blah.
DAMN- we're exhausted thinkin about it...
BTW, see how it feels...Don't put down another airline unless you've been there!

You know where I have been,, I have been in the shoes where the DL, NWA, UA flight attendants snubbed their noses at the swa FA,.,,for years you all thought so highly of yourselfs,,, tsst tsst,,, you couldnt work the trips because you may be a little spoiled or lazy,, you choose,,, O yea all those up and downs,, again your ignorance shining through,, I normally work 5-6 landings in 3 days,, oooh that is so tough,,,,

I know AMR, DL and UA f/a's and their pay .,,,so you keep your huge aircraft with all those exotic overnites where you stay in your hotel,, cause at the end of the month I will take my paycheck over yours,,, so take your hubris, your arrogance and ignorance back to your galley,,, we finally have the best contract in the business,, your right that it will change,, but hopefully later than sooner,, until it does I will enjoy more days off and better pay than you,,,,, but hey,, you have a passport with many stamps,, I am sooo jealous,,,

 

[AvTech04]

Okay, so now I have a better understanding in the methology of how F/A's get paid at SWA.. But out of all that, I still don't understand how you can fly 0 trips in a 30/31 day period and maintain health benefits... I though that if you missed 2 consecutive paycheck withholds than you were considered terminated (not literally) by the Heathcare provider unless you were on FMLA or some sort of disability.. But I can see how you could work the system during the summer and take virtually the entire summer or winter off (which every you prefer) if you have enough seniority.. That's a clever out..

Now, if you work off trips and and you end up with an odd number that doesn't equal an exact amount to complete a trip cycle for the day, I.E. 6 flights of 400 miles each = 2400 miles, that would equal 10.3 trips (per what bearsfan said, 233 = 1 ea trip) do they round up or down the final number to make you equal trip payment or do they pay you accordingly?? (meaning the 10.3 trips?) and the per diem, how much did you say it was 100-125? Is that per day, per week??

 

[buscador]

h

Okay, so now I have a better understanding in the methology of how F/A's get paid at SWA.. But out of all that, I still don't understand how you can fly 0 trips in a 30/31 day period and maintain health benefits... I though that if you missed 2 consecutive paycheck withholds than you were considered terminated (not literally) by the Heathcare provider unless you were on FMLA or some sort of disability.. But I can see how you could work the system during the summer and take virtually the entire summer or winter off (which every you prefer) if you have enough seniority.. That's a clever out..

Now, if you work off trips and and you end up with an odd number that doesn't equal an exact amount to complete a trip cycle for the day, I.E. 6 flights of 400 miles each = 2400 miles, that would equal 10.3 trips (per what bearsfan said, 233 = 1 ea trip) do they round up or down the final number to make you equal trip payment or do they pay you accordingly?? (meaning the 10.3 trips?) and the per diem, how much did you say it was 100-125? Is that per day, per week??

The trip is figured out to the tenth,, you print up your trip sheet and fly your legs. You take your Pay scale multiply it times the exact trip pay,, and thats your pay....they make it easy for the not so bright.. like me.... they can not work us more than 10.5 hours on a scheduled day... if over 12hours we get double time etc... It is all on the computer and the mileage changes on flights,, not going to get into all that,, but if you fly long haul(over 3 hours)for example,, you start getting paid a trip faster(less miles),,,, that doesnt matter because it is all figured out to the tenth when you pick it up... they have to pay at a rate of 6.5 trips per day minimum,, 3 day =19.5 minimum..... to my understanding the avg at AT is like 14 or so,,,,, Per diem is $2.15 per hour away from base

You have to let go of all your rules you have or have learned from other airlines,,, as far as a FAs ,,you dont have any minimums or maximums..NONE,,, my brother gave away ALL HIS trips for 3 years,, not once did he put on a uniform.. still had all the bennies... I dont know of any other company where that is possible... again,, crazy flexibility.. we enjoy

So for the AT FAs they are getting a double raise,, productivity is far greater,,i.e,, more trips per day..... and trip Pay is better....... so to ask for DOH is hard pill for us to swallow,,,, they seem to want to hit the tri fecta..... there #1 top out girl Mindi is at 18 years and makes what our 10 year FA makes,,,,

So lets take Mindi for example,,, if she got her DOH,,, she would take one of two paths..
.1- she could work 30-40% less days than she does right now and get same yearly pay,,,, 2 she could be aggresive and work with no minimums, have 8-12 days off a month and easily make 90-100k a year,,, I am willing to bet in the history of AT no FA has ever made 100k,,,, but you see this is the contract we have worked hard to make possible and only has been possible in the last 5 years,,,,

For example and I dont have exact AT numbers, but the AT fa minimum is 70 hours x $40 =$2800 per month for Mindi ,, working 15 days,,, at SWA in those 15 days would net her,, 15 days x6.5 per day=97.5 trips x $56=$5460,, or $2660 per month MORE for working the EXACT amount of days,,, so lets look at her total year,, $2660x12= $31920 , MORE per year,, Almost a $32k RAISE,,,,its possible she doesnt even make $32k a year NOW,, that would be just her Raise,, but thats fair?????

almost $32k pay raise per year for working the same EXACT amount of days,,, $32k RAISE per year and thats if she is lazy,,, SWA FA's arent getting a penny raise,, not one,, they get absolutely nothing,,, the only thing possible at SWA is a loss of seniority,,,, YOU decide the fairness here,, is DOH fair??????? even if she took a 2 for 1 and came here at 9 year FA,, she would make more money than she does now,, have WAY more flexibility and work less days,,, WOW,,, but I am letting everyone else decide,, I am done trying to put my logic and 2 cents in,,

Who out there would take a $30-60k yearly pay raise for doing the same job and have more days off, better benefits, better 401 etc,, raise your hand,,,, so of those that have your hands up ,,, how many of you would like to work your current job and your company buys another company that is financially weaker than yours,, NOT get a penny raise, And lose your seniority... while the new employee gets Both the raise and YOUR schedule,,,, oops I am seeing a lot of hands going down,, ohhhh no,, there is not one hand up still,, that is simply shocking,,,,come on people,, its better for the new company,, I cant believe you are upset,, hey why is everyone leaving,, a second ago you all had your hands up,, ok not everyone is leaving,, I still see the AT fa's here, wanting to know if they may have to commute,

I am only one Voice with ONE vote B)

 

[signals]

You know where I have been,, I have been in the shoes where the DL, NWA, UA flight attendants snubbed their noses at the swa FA,.,,for years you all thought so highly of yourselfs,,, tsst tsst,,, you couldnt work the trips because you may be a little spoiled or lazy,, you choose,,, O yea all those up and downs,, again your ignorance shining through,, I normally work 5-6 landings in 3 days,, oooh that is so tough,,,,

I know AMR, DL and UA f/a's and their pay .,,,so you keep your huge aircraft with all those exotic overnites where you stay in your hotel,, cause at the end of the month I will take my paycheck over yours,,, so take your hubris, your arrogance and ignorance back to your galley,,, we finally have the best contract in the business,, your right that it will change,, but hopefully later than sooner,, until it does I will enjoy more days off and better pay than you,,,,, but hey,, you have a passport with many stamps,, I am sooo jealous,,,

I heard how other airlines use to stick their noses in the air at Southwest. Must be a double victory on your part how the roles are reversed...even if they hide their envy well B)

Either way, my guess as an outsider is that in the near future, your passport will have more stamps than theirs!

 

[buscador]

I heard how other airlines use to stick their noses in the air at Southwest. Must be a double victory on your part how the roles are reversed...even if they hide their envy well B)

Either way, my guess as an outsider is that in the near future, your passport will have more stamps than theirs!

You are right, I will have plenty more stamps to go with the many already in my passport... Yea it was crazy when I would see other FAs walk to the other side of the terminal to avoid SWA,, would mumble under their breath, trailer park,, cattle car or sometimes just laugh,,, even had a couple asked if I was embarrased to work for SWA...as I worked for little pay,,, So you would think I would be arrogant back to them,, but not so,, cause I realize that we are all just employees and very few people have a crystal ball and can see into the future...or what path their management will take them or take from them...

If I treated those arrogant people the way they treated me 20 years ago, I would be no better than them.. Now dont get me wrong, when they choose to be ignorant and arrogant I have no problem taking them down a peg or two,,,We all chose an airline for our own personal reasons, at this time SWA has the best contract and flexibility,, but I am not ignorant enough to know it cant change,, So I will sip on my Jack daniels, gloat a little bit, and enjoy this moment as long as it lasts,,, its been a long time coming

 

[WorldTraveler]

Regardless of the perceived arrogance on either side, it is mathematically far easier for an FA at a network airline who flies international or long haul domestic on a constant basis to make far more than an FA at WN which doesn't even operate the airline around the clock.
Granted, there are relatively very few FAs at network airlines that have the freedom to bid what they want, pick up as many trips as they can, or have the health to fly across time zones multiple times per week, but it is very much mathematically possible - and it has nothing to do with arrogance personally or between companies.

 

[buscador]

Regardless of the perceived arrogance on either side, it is mathematically far easier for an FA at a network airline who flies international or long haul domestic on a constant basis to make far more than an FA at WN which doesn't even operate the airline around the clock.
Granted, there are relatively very few FAs at network airlines that have the freedom to bid what they want, pick up as many trips as they can, or have the health to fly across time zones multiple times per week, but it is very much mathematically possible - and it has nothing to do with arrogance personally or between companies.

We will just have to agree to disagree,, we have more flexibility to move our schedules and the company pays time and a half in overlap(end of the month, beginning of the month)... We also dont have 36-48 hours overnites, time is money.. So I would be willing to bet I have more quality time off at home and will make more per day than most FA's international or network ...

the long overnites and minimums and maximums kill their pay..... I know several FAs at AMR and USair, that have been flying a lot longer than I have,, we are talking 25+ years.. with their contractual limitations its simply hard for them to make the same,,,

I find it funny that most people believe that all SWA trips have numerous landings, yes that was true in the past,,, personally I will fly an average of 5-7 flights for a 3day,, now granted there are 3 day trips that have 13-15 landings but mostly junior people are flying them ,, for me that was many years ago,, lucky for me I will never have fly that many landings ever again

Typically I will check in at 3-4 pm and come home on the 3rd day around 10 pm,, so my time away from base is normally 50-56 hours,, unless you are making 25$ an hour per diem,, your time away from base and long overnites will just eat up your ability to fly productively... As we all know its not as glamourous of a job as the public likes to think,, and when you have seen any place many many times,, its just becomes ,,another anyplace,,,

My hat goes out to all FA's,, just as most cant imagine the so percieved many ups and downs at SWA, I cant imagine having to take a 7-14 day trip away from home,, ,, its not that I am homesick just that I think of time as money,, though many times I thought it would be cool to do international,, with my flexibility I find the time to travel the world on zed fares,,,

Thanks for the input,, have a good day

So again, I will tip my hat and agree to disagree,, :blink:

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are once again comparing your position relatively high at the top of the seniority list to a run of the mill FA at a network carrier. When you consider that 1/3 or more of the capacity at network carriers now comes from international flying, there are alot of FAs that are leaving their base in the evening and returning less than 48 hours later with 16-20 block hours. Keep in mind that those FAs get rest breaks on those flights as well.
Plus, many flights are much longer.... flights to Asia, Africa, Australia and the Middle East are from 12-17 hours long which means THOSE FAs can potentially double the amount of hours they accumulate in the same 48 hour period - and many of those planes are equipped w/ beds for crew members... so the whole sleep issue is diminished.
I am not slighting what you have and fully acknowledge that WN's efficiency is a big part of what makes it an enjoyable place for employees... productivity for the company translates into pay for employees.
But it is also severely narrow-focused to not recognize that there are alot of FAs in the US - and at foreign airlines - who make very good money.
.
There are lots of ways to make a living... I'm glad you like yours... others like theirs equally well and the IRS probably doesn't really care how you make your living so long as you report it.

 

[num1bearsfan]

Regardless of the perceived arrogance on either side, it is mathematically far easier for an FA at a network airline who flies international or long haul domestic on a constant basis to make far more than an FA at WN which doesn't even operate the airline around the clock.
Granted, there are relatively very few FAs at network airlines that have the freedom to bid what they want, pick up as many trips as they can, or have the health to fly across time zones multiple times per week, but it is very much mathematically possible - and it has nothing to do with arrogance personally or between companies.

Did you not read any of what was posted previous to this?... In fact, Southwest FAs have far more earning potential. If you believe otherwise then you're still not getting it.

 

[signals]

You are right, I will have plenty more stamps to go with the many already in my passport... Yea it was crazy when I would see other FAs walk to the other side of the terminal to avoid SWA,, would mumble under their breath, trailer park,, cattle car or sometimes just laugh,,, even had a couple asked if I was embarrased to work for SWA...as I worked for little pay,,, So you would think I would be arrogant back to them,, but not so,, cause I realize that we are all just employees and very few people have a crystal ball and can see into the future...or what path their management will take them or take from them...

If I treated those arrogant people the way they treated me 20 years ago, I would be no better than them.. Now dont get me wrong, when they choose to be ignorant and arrogant I have no problem taking them down a peg or two,,,We all chose an airline for our own personal reasons, at this time SWA has the best contract and flexibility,, but I am not ignorant enough to know it cant change,, So I will sip on my Jack daniels, gloat a little bit, and enjoy this moment as long as it lasts,,, its been a long time coming

Just from the stories on these boards over the years, it fascinates me how some gloat at SWA's shortfalls and it comes back to haunt them.

But now the LUV godesses can get the respect they deserve B)

 

[signals]

For the record, Word Twister seeks a peaceful coexistence between WN and Guess who? In Datlanta! If it goes against Delta it is unacceptable. Delta this Delta that Delta Delta Delta Delta infinity!

That pretty much sums up all his psychobabble ramblings

 

[buscador]

you are once again comparing your position relatively high at the top of the seniority list to a run of the mill FA at a network carrier. When you consider that 1/3 or more of the capacity at network carriers now comes from international flying, there are alot of FAs that are leaving their base in the evening and returning less than 48 hours later with 16-20 block hours. Keep in mind that those FAs get rest breaks on those flights as well.
Plus, many flights are much longer.... flights to Asia, Africa, Australia and the Middle East are from 12-17 hours long which means THOSE FAs can potentially double the amount of hours they accumulate in the same 48 hour period - and many of those planes are equipped w/ beds for crew members... so the whole sleep issue is diminished.
I am not slighting what you have and fully acknowledge that WN's efficiency is a big part of what makes it an enjoyable place for employees... productivity for the company translates into pay for employees.
But it is also severely narrow-focused to not recognize that there are alot of FAs in the US - and at foreign airlines - who make very good money.
.
There are lots of ways to make a living... I'm glad you like yours... others like theirs equally well and the IRS probably doesn't really care how you make your living so long as you report it.
[/quote

First and foremost I apologize if I was or sounded indifferent or condescending,, I thought we were talking about simple pay and possibilities... would I like to fly international,, yes,, would it be cool to have a crew of 15(better chances at getting 'fun) yes,, but the simple brass taxes of any profession is the end of the year,, how much time did it take to make how much money..

Now I understand that I am towards the top of the SWA list and have much more flexibility than most,, so lets take my buddy for example,,, he has been at SWA for 4 years,, sits reserve almost every other month(crippling him compared to me),, yet I have showed him how to work the system to the best he can with his situation(I know some things),,, now he is 26 years old,, he is having more fun(wink) than can be imagined,, he is at the bottom of the food chain and last year pulled in $60k as a FA.,, as a 26 yo FA,, that is something I could of never ever done,, what other Airlines can a 4 year FA do that???. crazy,,, he has had more days off than my 25+ year FA friends at AMr and USair,, and made more money than they did, after 25 years,,,wow,,,, so use it for what you will ,, but when I tell them the same scenario they simply shake their heads..So Worldtraveler,, tell me which Airlines that a 4 year FA can make $60k,,I dont know maybe your airline and others pay $100k for their 4 year FA's ,, again I am willing to be wrong,,, just dont think so

So yes international, network,, and 737 are very different,, but at the end of the year what matters is ,, simply,, how many days did you have to work to make x amount ,,, tax man knows about all of it,,,,and thats not including the 9% + profit sharing,, etc,, I am in no way saying I or anyone at SWA is better or worse,, but stating facts.. Because truth be told,, if I could fly international,, fly with a crew of 12-15, on wide body jets, with exoctic overnites,, crew beds,,nice,,and make the same $$$ for the same days off,,, I would love it,,

But remind me again,, what are the maximums and minimums at your company,, maximums and minimums,, cause that simply is debilitating,, most minimums I know of are 70 hours with the max being around a 100 hours,, again I could be wrong but if you max out at 100 hours per month you would need to be making around $80-90 an hour to get $100k,, can anyone tell me which major international or network carrier is paying that kind of money with the economy and concessions we all now know have happened in the last 5 years....I would love to see the actual names of these carriers that are still paying that kind of money,, cause I know my AMR friends have taken over a %40 decrease in the last 7 years,, so did they go from 140$ hour down to $100,, nope they are now topped out around $40 an hour with a maximum around 80-85 hours a month if they can get that,,,

I can be way off,, it would not shock me a bit if I was wrong,, but being in this industry ,, this long,, seeing what I have seen,, I would venture to guess very few FA's have the flexibility or chances to work their schedules and make the kind of money that you can at SWA,, keep in mind that this has only been possible for the last 5 years,,under the contract we are under now,, and we all know change can happen,,,

Thank you for your time,, I dont mean to debate wide body, international, network,, etc,, mine was a simple observation from many years in the business,, I would compare my earning potential and time off vs just about any airline FA's,, so ,, just the facts,,Time or days worked x pay, vs time off= year end pay..the more time off and more money made = better quality of life,,, again I could be wrong

I hope every FA enjoys their job and feels they work for a great company,, but most of all I hope we all can earn a great living that allows all of us and our families happiness,,, enough said

Thank you for your time,, and your input,,, it comes down to flexibility,,maximums,minimums and trip/hourly rate,, you can keep the exoctic overnites,, as I said before ,,with the extra money and time off I can pick and choose my exoctic destinations,,

B)