First Integrated Prom?

[Garfield1966]

come on. It's 2007 people. Next thing you know Ashburn will allow black to sit at the coffee counter and ride in the front of the bus. The fact that it has taken nearly 40 years since the Civil Rights Act was passed and that there are parents out there who according to the article "'My mommy and daddy -- they don't agree with being with the colored people," just leaves a very sour taste in my mouth.

I guess they did not get the notice that the war is over and that a few things have changed in the last few days/years/decades. Welcome to the 21st century Ashburn.


Full Article.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/23/turner.prom/index.html

 

[777 fixer]

There are several ways to look at this. Naturally one would think that we would have gotten past this sort of thing a long time ago. Unfortunately I guess it took this town a bit longer. What's odd is that they all attend the same high school during the day but then attended a segregated prom all these years.

There's something else to take into account. This country might still have its issues with race and ethnicity and probably always will. However when you look at the rest of the world where people are committing acts of genocide against those who belong to a different ethnic or religious group I guess it's not so bad here. Think about it, with all the different groups of people in the US it's quite amazing that we have not ripped ourselves to shreds over things like race, religion and ethnicity.

One last thing then I will get off my soap box. Some of us might read that article and turn our noses up at those "southerners". If you go to a prom in lets say south central LA there is no issue of an integrated prom. That's because there are no white people going to that school. Likewise if you go to a prom in south Orange County, Ca there would be no black people there.

 

[local 12 proud]

There are several ways to look at this. Naturally one would think that we would have gotten past this sort of thing a long time ago. Unfortunately I guess it took this town a bit longer. What's odd is that they all attend the same high school during the day but then attended a segregated prom all these years.

There's something else to take into account. This country might still have its issues with race and ethnicity and probably always will. However when you look at the rest of the world where people are committing acts of genocide against those who belong to a different ethnic or religious group I guess it's not so bad here. Think about it, with all the different groups of people in the US it's quite amazing that we have not ripped ourselves to shreds over things like race, religion and ethnicity.

One last thing then I will get off my soap box. Some of us might read that article and turn our noses up at those "southerners". If you go to a prom in lets say south central LA there is no issue of an integrated prom. That's because there are no white people going to that school. Likewise if you go to a prom in south Orange County, Ca there would be no black people there.

Excellent post 777...

regards,
Local 12

 

[Garfield1966]

777,

All valid points and well taken. I guess I look at it from the point that there are those in this country who are of the belief that segregation does not exist. We are all one big happy family and those who are ‘out side’ are their by choice. While we are by no means seeing blood flow down the streets, separate but equal is not an option.

I do not know what the current make up of the LA schools are now but I did go to a middle class school in LA a while back and we had a pretty good mix of people. The idea of having a separate prom would have blown that city wide open. While South Central may not have a huge ‘white’ population, I am fairly certain there is a mix of cultures. In Orange County there may not be a large black population but there is a growing Asian population who are quite affluent.

The idea that any school district would consider having separate proms in this day and age is just plain wrong. I see your points and they are well taken but this just sets my hair on edge.

 

[UAL_TECH]

come on. It's 2007 people. Next thing you know Ashburn will allow black to sit at the coffee counter and ride in the front of the bus. The fact that it has taken nearly 40 years since the Civil Rights Act was passed and that there are parents out there who according to the article "'My mommy and daddy -- they don't agree with being with the colored people," just leaves a very sour taste in my mouth.

I guess they did not get the notice that the war is over and that a few things have changed in the last few days/years/decades. Welcome to the 21st century Ashburn.
Full Article.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/23/turner.prom/index.html

Evidently, it’s been working for them on both sides of the issue. Had they been ‘forced’ to accept integration through litigation and/or mandate before they were ready, then the outcome might have been quite different. Having grown up in an ethnically diverse neighborhood, I remember my experiences of trying to integrate, and to be brutally honest, white folk do not have a patent on being racist.

Take that ‘broad brush’ of yours and trim it down to what fits in our society. My take on this is that this is a rare success story amongst the numerous bloody and divisive failures of our historical enforcement of integration.

JMHO,
B) UT

 

[Garfield1966]

It was working for Little Rock as well. Should they not have been forced to integrate either? Should they have been allowed to do what works for them at their own pace? Most schools in the US have been integrated since the late 50's or early 60's. To say that this is a success story amongst the numerous bloody and divisive failures only endorse the racism and segregation that still exists.

This was a case of segregation clear and simple. What kind of example does it set that we as a society say it is ok for children not to interact with each other due to the color of your skin? That is not the type of 'education' the future generation needs. Segregation or separation of any type should not be tolerated in our society.

The Civil war was fought (in part) to end the "southern way of life". It's about damn time that cities lie Ashburn Georgia join the 21st century and catch up with the rest of us.

Given that 150 students showed up for the prom, it would seem that it was not working that well for both sides.

 

[local 12 proud]

The Civil war was fought (in part) to end the "southern way of life".

It wasn't just a "southern way of life", in fact it was'nt until 1780 to 1804 that northern states passed emanicipation acts.

It was'nt Georgia that brought the slave trade to "The Colonies"... :blink:

We may recall learning about the arrival of twenty "Negars" at Jamestown, Virginia in 1619, where they were put to work growing tobacco. . . .

You seem to imply racism is strictly a "southern" Phenomenon introduced to the rest of America by "southners". It is just as much a problem in Detroit, MI. as it is in Birmingham, AL.

 

[Garfield1966]

It wasn't just a "southern way of life", in fact it was'nt until 1780 to 1804 that northern states passed emanicipation acts.

It was'nt Georgia that brought the slave trade to "The Colonies"... :blink:
You seem to imply racism is strictly a "southern" Phenomenon introduced to the rest of America by "southners". It is just as much a problem in Detroit, MI. as it is in Birmingham, AL.

Where you got the implication is not my problem. While the entire nation used slaves to build the foundation of this country, it does appear that the south is the only area trying to hold on to it's past. The rest of the nation seems to have moved on at least as far as segregation is concerned.

 

[UAL_TECH]

It was working for Little Rock as well. Should they not have been forced to integrate either? Should they have been allowed to do what works for them at their own pace? Most schools in the US have been integrated since the late 50's or early 60's. To say that this is a success story amongst the numerous bloody and divisive failures only endorse the racism and segregation that still exists.

This was a case of segregation clear and simple. What kind of example does it set that we as a society say it is ok for children not to interact with each other due to the color of your skin? That is not the type of 'education' the future generation needs. Segregation or separation of any type should not be tolerated in our society.

The Civil war was fought (in part) to end the "southern way of life". It's about damn time that cities lie Ashburn Georgia join the 21st century and catch up with the rest of us.

Given that 150 students showed up for the prom, it would seem that it was not working that well for both sides.

Desegregation how is this working out?
Simply put, some ethnics feel comfortable living amongst themselves and the ‘PC’ folks can make it worse by forcing people into situations that are neither solicited nor wanted. If we were to ‘truly’ force desegregation, then there would be laws demanding neighborhoods have a population that is demographically proportionate and not allow the purchase/rent of properties until the ‘quota’ has been filled.

I had a position in Alabama that required me to travel the Tri-State area (Georgia, Alabama, and Florida) and there are areas that are ethnically controlled (on both sides) and outsiders are not welcome. The same situation exists in California at East LA, Watts, Hunters Point, and EPA today. If you want to ‘force’ desegregation, then you need to break up these homogeneous communities and demand that they live in other communities. Giving this train of logic, we should break up China Town, Japan Town, and Korea Town, then go back to every city and break up their homogeneous communities as well.

And if you really are speaking of a level playing field then the dissolution of the Black Businessmen's Association, and the plethora of ethnically oriented business associations and groups that grant/deny access based on ethnicity.

Some immigrants are more willing to work to become successful while others do not.

It is what it is.

B) UT

 

[777 fixer]

The rest of the nation seems to have moved on at least as far as segregation is concerned.

Really? I grew up in what one could call a "northern" city. While parents would never dream of having a segregated prom here's what would happen. The first black family would move in and they would put a for sale sign in front of their house. Now they would never say that it was because a black family moved in. They would always come up with things like....

"We need a bigger house"
Translation We need a bigger house in a neighborhood with no black families.

"We just want a change of scenery"
Translation Change of scenery meaning no black people in it.

So while it may not be as obvious as a segregated prom bigotry takes on different forms in the "sophisticated" north.

 

[Garfield1966]

Considering that that blacks are allowed to sit anywhere on the bus, drink out of the same bathroom, use the same rest room, drink a cup of coffee at the counter, go to the same school and university, live where every they choose, use the same hospital, run for and attain a congressional seat, become governor of a state … I would say desegregation has worked out quite well.

I believe we have a failure to communicate. What you are referring to is peoples right congregate and associate with who they choose on their terms. What I am referring to is the city/state/fed telling an individual what they may or may not do.

Segregation at its inception was law. A black person did not have the option to disobey it. They either sat at the back of the bus or they went to jail (if they were lucky). Blacks were not allowed to attend Little Rock High School until the US National Guard escorted them in. This had nothing to do with blacks not choosing to go to Little Rock High, they were not allowed to do so.

I understand that people of similar cultural, ethnic, religious … back grounds may choose to live in a particular area. I have no problem with that, as long as it is by choice. When someone is forced to live somewhere or prevented (by rule of law) from going somewhere else that is where I have issues.

The segregation of the proms in Georgia IMO, were a by product of a time where the segregation was the rule of law and violators were beaten or killed.

As for business associations, if they are privately funded, they may allow whom ever they choose to be a member. If there are tax dollars involved, then you have a point.

My issue is with segregation that is based on or originated based on the rule of law, not ones personal choice to segregate them selves.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

My issue is with segregation that is based on or originated based on the rule of law, not ones personal choice to segregate them selves.

I agree with you that 'it is hard to believe that a town was still holding segregated proms.'

But to this point alone... before this year, it was a private sponsored event. So wasn't it, afterall, the parents' personal choice to segregate the private dance?

The segregation of the proms in Georgia IMO, were a by product of a time where the segregation was the rule of law and violators were beaten or killed.

And to the other poster's points, are they not inherently suggesting that often people's personal choices (sometimes irrational) are a by-product of the days of slavery and segregation. Suburban 'white-flight' comes to my mind.

 

[Garfield1966]

Here is my theory.

More than likely the proms have been segregated since the schools were segregated. Actually, I am guessing that the white kids had a prom long before the black kids did even after the school was segregated. The blacks more than likely started putting together their own proms so that their kids would not be completely left out. As a result, the proms started out segregated and continued to stay that way. My guess is that had the black kids felt welcomed by the white kids they would have been more than happy to go to a desegregated prom (I would assume the white kids proms were (at least at the out set) quite a bit fancier then the prom of the black kids (economic guess).

Until proven other wise, I am assuming that the white folks had a segregated prom to keep the black folks out (substantiated in part my quotes from the article). The black folks had their own prom just to have a prom. I find no support for the idea that, given the choice, the blacks chose to have a segregated prom. For those few on either side who are in favor of a segregated prom, they can do as they choose but it should not have any support from the school, state or city. Segregation is not what this country stands for (at least not any more).

I do believe that schools need to be better integrated. Beverly High needs to have a better balance of kids, as does South Central. I think it will help balance the funds that are distributed for education so that the schools might be a bit more 'equal'. It will allow the white kids to know that there are other folks out in the world and they are not all the enemy and it will allow the minority kids to interact with the white kids and see that they are not all evil as well. I had the opportunity to go to racially diverse schools growing up. I am quite glad that I did. I learned just as much from my peers as I did from the teachers and the books.

While separate but equal is not the law of the land anymore, there do seem to be areas in this country in both big and small cities, liberal states such as California and conservative states such as Texas where separate and unequal seem to be the standard. Education is where it all starts. These are the kids who will be changing our diapers and running our governments. They are our future. IMO, we cannot afford to teach them that segregation in any form is OK because you are comfortable with it. We need to do everything possible to ensure that peoples personal choice is based on logic and humanity rather than fear and loathing. Those choices start in school.

 

[local 12 proud]

Yea its all black and white, talk about living a sheltered life...

 

[UAL_TECH]

It was working for Little Rock as well. Should they not have been forced to integrate either? Should they have been allowed to do what works for them at their own pace? Most schools in the US have been integrated since the late 50's or early 60's. To say that this is a success story amongst the numerous bloody and divisive failures only endorse the racism and segregation that still exists.

This was a case of segregation clear and simple. What kind of example does it set that we as a society say it is ok for children not to interact with each other due to the color of your skin? That is not the type of 'education' the future generation needs. Segregation or separation of any type should not be tolerated in our society.

The Civil war was fought (in part) to end the "southern way of life". It's about damn time that cities lie Ashburn Georgia join the 21st century and catch up with the rest of us.

Given that 150 students showed up for the prom, it would seem that it was not working that well for both sides.

I agree with you in part on the ‘spirit’ of the law, but to make a ‘law’ and have everyone enforce or abide by it is quite a different story. If in fact the rule of ‘law’ were adhered to by everyone, then there would never be lawbreakers (which we all know is not true). You are upset because it took 40 years to have a desegregated prom party and I am elated that it happened without bloodshed.

B) UT