Express Bigger Than Mainline?

[Bluestreak]

I think ALPA's #1 priority should be raising wages and improving work rules at express and contract carriers. Unfortunatly with the economy in such bad condition, ALPA has little leverage. ALPA is only as strong as its lowest paid pilot.

 

[diogenes]

I have to agree with Madders. Considering all the different ways US is trying to save money, I would think that getting bags to destinations would be one of the simplest ways to do it. The figure that has always been thrown at me was $40/bag domestic. International, on average, is approximately $500/bag. Express is leaps and bounds beyond mainline in accounting for missed bags, especially at PIT.

[post="175640"][/post]​

It works the other way in some out-stations. The weight restrictions on the RJ's are causing bou-cou PAWOB's, a problem you don't have on mainline.

It's enough of a problem that the Palace called around a few months ago, getting specifics on PAWOB's. They allowed as how the express interim and delivery costs were huge.

 

[Prince of PAWOBs]

It works the other way in some out-stations. The weight restrictions on the RJ's are causing bou-cou PAWOB's, a problem you don't have on mainline.

It's enough of a problem that the Palace called around a few months ago, getting specifics on PAWOB's. They allowed as how the express interim and delivery costs were huge.

[post="175686"][/post]​

Blaming weight-restricted flights is all fine and dandy for outstations, but when those same agents at the out-stations fail to expedite bags in their downtime and simply dump bags on the next flight to a hub (or "focus city" - I hate that stupid monikker), then that makes the next city responsible for the problem.

Customer: Where's my bag?

Baggage Service Agent: We'll try to locate it for you, ma'am.

C: Every time I fly into (pick a large station), you people lose my bag!

BSA: Let's file a bag claim and we'll try to get it to you as soon as possible.

C: I checked my bag in (hmm...who should I pick on...oh, yeah. My favorite!) ERI, and I'm just so sure that they put it on the plane.

BSA: I'll call the ramp lead and see if your bag is still down there.

Of course it isn't, because the ding-dong agents in ERI didn't load it and have absolutely no desire to let anyone know that the bag is there, because that takes effort, and they are just soooo busy.

So, hours later, here comes a runner to baggage reroute with a bunch of bags from a previous flight that just arrived on a recent flight. No expedite tags, no information in the passenger's record, and when you call ERI, whoever answers the phone pleads ignorance, blaming the previous shift or, better yet, simply saying, "We don't have time to worry about that stuff. We're very busy here." Really? What's so important? Tanning time? Regis and Kelly? Chicken vs. Egg? Lunch?

If you want someone to do something in this day and age at some of these out-stations, you have to rattle a sabre and threaten their livelyhood. Don't know how to do it? We can teach you. Don't have time to do it? We'll show you how to budget your time wisely. Don't want to do it? Find another employer who will tolerate your silliness. If this airline needs to save money any way it can, then this stupidity with baggage must end.

 

[diogenes]

Uhh, wouldn't it be simpler, and safer, to have an aircraft that WILL carry passengers AND their bags?

Or failing that, restrict the bookings to fall with in w&b parameters? I.E., if an ERJ's restrictions are routinely 40 pax and 50 bags, reduce the seats available for sale to 40.

And just how, exactly, does a flight leave bags behind? If weight is an issue, aren't volunteers to be solicited before baggage removal?

Wish I had a hot meal for every time c/s (a) blew thru the restrictions to start with, and/or (B) did NOT solicit volunteers.

And prince, it ain't just out-stations failing to expedite bags and send forwarding messages - you should see what an out-station I know about gets inbound, routinely! 😱

 

[Prince of PAWOBs]

And prince, it ain't just out-stations failing to expedite bags and send forwarding messages - you should see what an out-station I know about gets inbound, routinely! 😱

[post="176729"][/post]​

Diogenes, you have a valid point. I can only speak for the express agents in PIT, who I know for a fact take care of every single bag that misses from their inbound flights. Mainline rarely reroutes or expedites anything when it misses, unless it's an international bag and they are forced to do it by the express agents shipping it down to mainline's underutilized baggage reroute area.

If you check bag tags at that particular outstation, I'll bet you that those bags that show up which should have been expedited probably were on a mainline flight somewhere upline.

And yes, I agree with you about taking volunteers off before the bags on every weight-restricted flight. I have no idea why that rule is not enforced anymore. Would I like to see non-restricted a/c run those routes? Absolutely! One of the biggest mistakes US has made is removing mainline aircraft from routes that really require a heavier a/c to handle the loads. Will I lay off of hassling the ERI station because of their bad luck? Nope! Those guys and girls need to adjust to the situation. Flexibility and creativity can solve numerous problems. All they have to do is try.

 

[Prince of PAWOBs]

This is a PRIME example of what happens to a company that has suffered through YEARS of at best mediocre management. Accountability is a must in any business. All of those years where Out Stations and their employees where left to do these kinds of things unpunished is over. And all pay for the failures of the past. Thus the M/L express wage. Based on Prince of PAWOBS example it seems like even at M/L Express wages some are overpaid.

[post="176677"][/post]​

Well, let's consider your wage argument for just a moment.

MidAtlantic employees make more than your average Express newbie by far. And yes, the PSA agents at PIT (my example) seem to be able to accomplish considerably more than the MDA agents when it comes to ramp operations. I don't care what in particular anyone wants to argue about specifically; I guarantee that PSA rampers can accomplish anything at PIT better and faster. And yes, they do it all for lower wages.

Now, PSA agents would love to get a wage hike. Contract negotiations have been stalled now for almost two years, and now furloughs are coming to some of them at PIT. There's definitely trouble in River City when the lowest paid employees of US Airways are getting furloughed. Yet those same employees manage to perform miraculous deeds on a daily basis.

PSA management at PIT isn't spectacular, but they do hold agents accountable for accomplishing tasks, and they run a fairly smooth operation out of that airport. And they aren't immune to the downsizing problem either, as some members of management found out little more than a week ago that they are going to lose their positions along with junior CSA's in November. Yet they continue to come to work and do their job of moving planes and people where they need to be.

Back to the wage argument: Do MDA agents make too much? Probably not, especially in comparison to Mainline wages. But they do make more than regular Express employees.

Do they need better accountability from management? Absolutely! Mainline Jr. would be a better nickname for them than Mainline Express.

Better management doesn't solve all of the problems, but it does tackle a majority of them. And management can only be as good as the employees that work for them. Both groups feed off each other in a bizarre symbiotic relationship. If the kids at CCY want a model of how management/employee relations work well, they need look no further than the PSA operation at PIT (at least while it's still there). Now, if the CSA's there could finally get a contract with a better wage, I can only imagine the accomplishments that would occur.

Higher wages=higher morale=greater success

 

[Light Years]

MidAtlantic employees

[post="177052"][/post]​

OK, I've asked this before but not gotten a very clear answer... whats the difference between a non-flight crew MidAtlantic employee and a Mainline Express employee? Are they the same? Or is there really that many customer service groups-

Mainline
Mainline Express
MidAtlantic
PSA
Piedmont
Contracted International
:blink:

Where are the MidAtlantic ground crews? In PHL and PIT? Did they actually hire new people? I thought either mainline/mainline express employees or Express (PDT or PSA depending on the station) handled the MDA flights?

So does that mean theres a whole other level of management and employees for MDA? Say MDA has 10 flights a day out of a station, and the rest of Express had 80, plus there are 40 mainline/Shuttle flights. Would that mean they would hire all new ground crews (and managers etc) to work those 10 while PDT works the rest of the Express and mainline works thier own? How much sense does that make What a waste of money and resources! :unsure:

This company wants pay cuts while they create needless divisions, subsidiaries, alter egos, contract carriers, fences, and complications. Wouldnt it be not only more simple, but more EFFICIENT and less COSTLY to not have so many Express carriers and different work groups working them? Its all so convoluted and senseless, not to mention redundant and expensive.

Its just like having two airlines operating different 70 seat jets, four operating 50 seaters, two wholly-owneds and a division, and contracted "help" from every two-bit regional under the sun. That nonsense has to affect the operation when one cancels and the other cant cover it. Ridiculous!

US Airways claims to have invented the whole "Express/Commuter/feeder network" idea. Well they sure arent very good at making it a simple, streamlined operation! 🙄

OK, rant over.

 

[WestCoastGuy]

USair has never understood the concept of keeping things "simple". Never have...Never will. I agree, the whole express mess of different planes, companies, crews, ramp, CS, is a mess and would obviously be made much more efficient and cost effective if it was ran by one company and group of employees, but thats just our opinion...we obivously dont see the "whole picture". We need one more VP to oversee it.

 

[diogenes]

Hello LY, good to see you again.

Yes MDA agents are a different animal from both mainline agents AND mainline express - different payscales, rules, etc.

The reason there aren't many MDA agents yet is the details of their contract is STILL be negotiated by IAM and CWA from the LAST concessionary round (does that suck, or what?), and there are a lot of unknowns. I think it is ENTIRELY by design that the last concession talks are bleeding over into this round - it's called three-card monte.

Will seniority be portable between mainline and ME or MDA? Or will you accrue seniority in each, as opposed to all? Or something worse? (Guess how I figure that'll work out!?! :angry: ) And that is just one aspect.

So for the time being, it's a grab bag of who's handling MDA.

 

[diogenes]

Prince,

Concur.

 

[Prince of PAWOBs]

Hope you all don't mind me stating the obvious, but what a world of hurt the executive management of US would be in if we were all members of the same workgroup.

We probably could have fixed the airline all by ourselves with one work action ten years ago.

 

[tadjr]

And just how, exactly, does a flight leave bags behind? If weight is an issue, aren't volunteers to be solicited before baggage removal?

[post="176729"][/post]​

Sometimes you cant get volunteers. Try a holiday weekend to Key West with NO flights available for 3 days. Yeah, they're jumping at that one. Same thing with flights to VPS or PFN. Well, we can get you there tomorrow night via DFW or ATL arriving at midnight. Sign me up. In some markets where we are all there is or the competition is full as well, we dont have a lot of options. True in many markets you can get something worked out to get a volunteer (like PNS people via CLT) IF CLT has seats (now going to an RJ as well!)
:down:

 

[diogenes]

tadjr, I hear you, and agree, up to a point.

But we both know there are times the effort isn't even made - it's just easier to put 50 folks on a 50 seat a/c, and leave the bags. The customer won't even know until his destination, and then he can jump THAT agent instead of us.


I haven't seen the move DODGEBALL yet, but if it's a metaphor for 'grown-ups' in the workplace, U was the role model.

 

[Borescope]

Looks like US is going to be the poster boy for Star.

US Airways Receives CRJ-700 with Star Alliance Livery


US Airways took delivery of its first Bombardier jet in Star Alliance livery, reports Aviation Daily. The aircraft has a white fuselage with the word Star in black letters and a black horizontal stabilizer with five triangles in the star formation—the Star Alliance logo.

Sell the big ones and get in line with Ornstien.

 

[Prince of PAWOBs]

Looks like US is going to be the poster boy for Star.

US Airways Receives CRJ-700 with Star Alliance Livery
US Airways took delivery of its first Bombardier jet in Star Alliance livery, reports Aviation Daily. The aircraft has a white fuselage with the word Star in black letters and a black horizontal stabilizer with five triangles in the star formation—the Star Alliance logo.

Sell the big ones and get in line with Ornstien.

[post="177616"][/post]​

Most Mesa employees I talk to don't have too much to say about Orenstein either way, but the guy does have a knack for keeping airlines flying, and he makes no apologies for his methods. Maybe he'll figure out a way to acquire US, but without bringing back his buddy Siegel. :blink: