Bluestreak
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- May 20, 2003
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How long untill Express has more aircraft than mainline? How long until Express has more ASMs than mainline? We have to be nearing some sort of tipping point.
Express Bigger Than Mainline?
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Flying Titan
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- Oct 14, 2003
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Would you count the 170s as "Express" or "mainline"?
They say "Express" on the side of the aircraft, but they're on the mainline cert.
They say "Express" on the side of the aircraft, but they're on the mainline cert.
Light Years
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- Aug 27, 2002
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It already is.
"Express" has 308 aircraft (that info is correct as of about a month ago, so figure in some changes sice then from deliveries and phase-outs).
usairways.com lists:
13 E170 (really not Express, and I believe they are up to 20 now)
4 CRJ700
49 CRJ
85 ERJ145
12 Dash 8-300
60 Dash 8
12 Dornier 328 (probably a lot less by now)
25 Saab 340 (probably less with the much-needed departure of Shuttle America)
78 Jetsteam 41 (that doesnt sound right? I thought there were about 4!)
40 B1900s
By daily flights "US Airways Express" is much larger than US Airways. US Airways (including the Shuttle) has 1236 daily flights, "Express" has 2141 daily flights.
US Airways serves 92 airports. Express serves 141 airports.
The only way Airways might be bigger is in seats, and even then probably not by much considering its a mostly small narrowbody airline.
US Airways is a strange airline.
"Express" has 308 aircraft (that info is correct as of about a month ago, so figure in some changes sice then from deliveries and phase-outs).
usairways.com lists:
13 E170 (really not Express, and I believe they are up to 20 now)
4 CRJ700
49 CRJ
85 ERJ145
12 Dash 8-300
60 Dash 8
12 Dornier 328 (probably a lot less by now)
25 Saab 340 (probably less with the much-needed departure of Shuttle America)
78 Jetsteam 41 (that doesnt sound right? I thought there were about 4!)
40 B1900s
By daily flights "US Airways Express" is much larger than US Airways. US Airways (including the Shuttle) has 1236 daily flights, "Express" has 2141 daily flights.
US Airways serves 92 airports. Express serves 141 airports.
The only way Airways might be bigger is in seats, and even then probably not by much considering its a mostly small narrowbody airline.
US Airways is a strange airline.
OP
Bluestreak
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- May 20, 2003
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Ok, so express has more aircraft than mainline. Who has more ASMs? Who has more employees? Is Us Airways becoming a franchise? All it takes to start a Subway or McDonalds is a franchise fee. Why doesn't U charge a franchise fee. Each aircraft could be operated by a seperate airline thereby spreading all risks and splittering employee groups.
ITRADE
Veteran
IIRC Express often had a lot of aircraft. That 78 figure is dead wrong. In fact, IIRC the only J41s these days are operated out of BWI.
US developed some type of relationship with TransStates in about 2000 or 2001 using the J41s, but that really didn't go very far.
Actually, I was kinda surprised that US wanted to have anything to do with TSA after the 1999? west coast debacle.
The B-1900 count seems a little high. Colgan flies 14. AirMidwest flies 20 under US Express colors.
The S-340 count will fall to about 15 with Colgan operating the only aircraft after ShuttleAmerica fizzles out.
The itemized list that US has lists about 380 planes. So, perhaps 308 is the current running count.
US developed some type of relationship with TransStates in about 2000 or 2001 using the J41s, but that really didn't go very far.
Actually, I was kinda surprised that US wanted to have anything to do with TSA after the 1999? west coast debacle.
The B-1900 count seems a little high. Colgan flies 14. AirMidwest flies 20 under US Express colors.
The S-340 count will fall to about 15 with Colgan operating the only aircraft after ShuttleAmerica fizzles out.
The itemized list that US has lists about 380 planes. So, perhaps 308 is the current running count.
ITRADE
Veteran
Universally Express, but what's your point?
Does a 30% load factor on a mainline jet justify flyinga mainline jet for sake of simply flying the mainline jet?
Does it make sense to fly a mainline jet from PIT to DUJ or PHL to SBY?
Does a 30% load factor on a mainline jet justify flyinga mainline jet for sake of simply flying the mainline jet?
Does it make sense to fly a mainline jet from PIT to DUJ or PHL to SBY?
ITRADE
Veteran
Here's my guess as to the fleet size (or as of end of September):
Canadair Regional Jet 700 70 4 5
Canadair Regional Jet (100/200) 50 49 49
Embraer 170 Regional Jet 72 13 20
Embraer 145 Regional Jet 50 85 85
Dash-8 (100-200) 37 60 60
Dash-8 (300) 50 12 12
Dornier 328 32 12 0
SAAB 340 30/34 25 14
Beech 1900 C&D 19 40 35
Jetstream 41 30 78 6
286
Canadair Regional Jet 700 70 4 5
Canadair Regional Jet (100/200) 50 49 49
Embraer 170 Regional Jet 72 13 20
Embraer 145 Regional Jet 50 85 85
Dash-8 (100-200) 37 60 60
Dash-8 (300) 50 12 12
Dornier 328 32 12 0
SAAB 340 30/34 25 14
Beech 1900 C&D 19 40 35
Jetstream 41 30 78 6
286
Light Years
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- Aug 27, 2002
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Yeah, there is no way there is more than a handful of J41s. Trans States may have 78, but not for US. There are two or three in PIT every now and then and a few doing the remaining Express work at BWI.
The Trans States west coast J32 operation ended in early 2000 or so, making the left side of the Attache map even sadder looking. I dont think Trans States has a very large USX operation, it seems to be centered around PIT.
US Airways has 28,000 or so employees. usairways.com claims that "Express" has 10,844, but thats nearly impossible to pinpoint. When you look at the contract carriers who also have large operations for other carriers, who do you count as a "US Airways Express" employee? Do you count a secretary for Mesa in PHX and a flight instructor for Chautauqua in IND? Its really hard to determine who to count.
It'd be interesting to see an itemized list of each carrier. Is Mesa the biggest of the contract carriers?
The Trans States west coast J32 operation ended in early 2000 or so, making the left side of the Attache map even sadder looking. I dont think Trans States has a very large USX operation, it seems to be centered around PIT.
US Airways has 28,000 or so employees. usairways.com claims that "Express" has 10,844, but thats nearly impossible to pinpoint. When you look at the contract carriers who also have large operations for other carriers, who do you count as a "US Airways Express" employee? Do you count a secretary for Mesa in PHX and a flight instructor for Chautauqua in IND? Its really hard to determine who to count.
It'd be interesting to see an itemized list of each carrier. Is Mesa the biggest of the contract carriers?
wings396
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- Aug 20, 2002
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ITRADE said:
The big issue here, is the Size of the So Called Express A/C today. First it was the 50 seaters, then came the 70...now the 90 is on the way. When is an Express A/C, not really Express anymore? Where will it end? 100+ seats, and we will be into the DC-9, 737 and 319 range. Today Express is just another way to reduce everyones paycheck. Mainline Jets were never operated into DUJ or SBY anyway. Granted some stations don't warrent a Mainline A/C, but others do. When the EMB-170's start taking over stations such as IAH, SYR, RIC, BUF, ROC and many others, something is out of whack. We don't need a 733 or 319, but a 70 or 90 seat Express A/C is OK. The Company's main objective here is to Express as many stations as possilbe, while operating A/C with 10-20 fewer seats than before. Why is someone who handles a 737 worth $7-$8 an hour more than someone who does the same job with an A/C with a few less seats? Did the employess working the 757,767 and 330's get more pay than the rest of the workforce handling 737's and 320's? NO, so why the big difference for everyone else? In the past Express was a 19-37 seat A/C, and that was a world apart from a Mainline type A/C, but this is no longer the case.
Wings396,
The "Expressing" of the major carriers has been evolving for the past 10+ years. Delta and Delta ALPA sold the rest of the industry out when they placed the first order for an RJ at Comair.
Some of the Regional or Express carriers are or will be considered "MAJORS" by the DOT. They carry that many people and from coast to coast.
That wouldn't be that big of a deal, but the Express carriers still pay their employess next to nothing. They operate 50+ seat jet aircraft at 7 seat C402 pay rates from the early 80's. It doesn't matter if your a pilot, mech, fa or agent, you will be paid at poverty levels.
All of the major airlines would love to paint express on the side of 737's/A320's/MD80's and cut the labor cost by 70%.
Take one step further. The head honcho's at any given major would love to paint Delta/United/American/USAir/Continental (pick any airline) International Connnection and call it a code share. (like an RJ but on a 777 or 330) Pay all the employees of that contract/code share airline next to nothing and cut the labor flying across the pond by 60 to 70%.
It sure would give me the warm and fuzzy's knowing that the 330 I'm riding on in the middle of the Atlantic was signed off by a mech who is working three jobs to support his family and has been up for 20 hours and then upon landing in Paris the captain has now been up for 36 hours straight because he's a server at the local Fridays so he can afford to put his kids through community college.
Just something to think about.
The "Expressing" of the major carriers has been evolving for the past 10+ years. Delta and Delta ALPA sold the rest of the industry out when they placed the first order for an RJ at Comair.
Some of the Regional or Express carriers are or will be considered "MAJORS" by the DOT. They carry that many people and from coast to coast.
That wouldn't be that big of a deal, but the Express carriers still pay their employess next to nothing. They operate 50+ seat jet aircraft at 7 seat C402 pay rates from the early 80's. It doesn't matter if your a pilot, mech, fa or agent, you will be paid at poverty levels.
All of the major airlines would love to paint express on the side of 737's/A320's/MD80's and cut the labor cost by 70%.
Take one step further. The head honcho's at any given major would love to paint Delta/United/American/USAir/Continental (pick any airline) International Connnection and call it a code share. (like an RJ but on a 777 or 330) Pay all the employees of that contract/code share airline next to nothing and cut the labor flying across the pond by 60 to 70%.
It sure would give me the warm and fuzzy's knowing that the 330 I'm riding on in the middle of the Atlantic was signed off by a mech who is working three jobs to support his family and has been up for 20 hours and then upon landing in Paris the captain has now been up for 36 hours straight because he's a server at the local Fridays so he can afford to put his kids through community college.
Just something to think about.
Prince of PAWOBs
Veteran
madders said:
I have to agree with Madders. Considering all the different ways US is trying to save money, I would think that getting bags to destinations would be one of the simplest ways to do it. The figure that has always been thrown at me was $40/bag domestic. International, on average, is approximately $500/bag. Express is leaps and bounds beyond mainline in accounting for missed bags, especially at PIT.
wings396
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- Aug 20, 2002
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smfav8r, I could not agree with you more. DL did open the floodgates with Comair and their RJ operation. When the 50 seat A/C made the scene, In some cases it made sense to use these on routes that could not support a larger A/C. But now the Majors have squeezed ALPA to include 70-90 seat A/C into this scope. Your are right, if they could get Express on the 737's and Airbus 320 Family, they would. I'm sure in the next round of concessions, ALPA will cave into this type of request from the Company. At some point all of the work groups at ALL Carriers, must put thier foot down with the "Expressing" of the Indusrty. We are no longer comparing a B-1900 or a DH-8 to a 737 or Airbus size A/C. Express in no longer Express in reality. Express has just become the new trend of cutting wages to the Poverty level for 3/4 of the System.
