ESPP when will it be back?

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

Got me, Dave.

Since you're so convinced that the TWU, APFA, and APA should get credit for furloughs being done within the terms of the exiting contract, are you willing to consider the same for management?

That would include credit for the 22% furloughs already done, credit for no raises in the past two years, and credit for devalued stock options.

If so, management would have already met its $100M goal...

 

[RV4]

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On 3/25/2003 8:03:16 AM eolesen wrote:


Not fear, Dave.

LIABILITY, LIABILITY, LIABILITY....

The company is protecting itself. Haven''t you noticed all the suits filed regarding the UAL ESOP for not having sold shares when they should of, and later for having sold them at too low a price?...

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So if we file a lawsuit for bargaining in bad faith for not giving any employee group credit for furloughed workers will AA run for cover because of liablity?

 

[Buck]

It would seem that the 22% from managemnet was not needed in the first place.......

 

[RV4]

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On 3/26/2003 9:25:16 PM eolesen wrote:

Got me, Dave.

Since you''re so convinced that the TWU, APFA, and APA should get credit for furloughs being done within the terms of the exiting contract, are you willing to consider the same for management?

That would include credit for the 22% furloughs already done, credit for no raises in the past two years, and credit for devalued stock options.

If so, management would have already met its $100M goal...

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Yes E,

You should be given credit.

 

[RV4]

eoleson post from another thread...

The furloughing of 1000 is being done within the terms of the existing contracts, therefore the dollar value associated with that was included in the $2B already identified by the company before coming to the unions.

You can't expect credit for something that was within the company's right to do all along...

I'd love to get credit for the virtual pay cut I took from not getting raises over the past two years, but it ain't gonna work out that way.
​

Obvioulsy you answered your own question. Given you have NO contractual rights. NO Management should no loner be given credit for furloughs according to your rules.

At least we are not asking for credit equal to mismanagement decisions which they "have the right to do"? Management also has the right to be removed from the decision making process via a Judge and that is where we are headed!

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

You''re right. We have no contractual rights. So, we don''t get to #### and moan in public by issuing press releases. We also don''t have any false expectations of being protected against layoff or pay cuts.

And, if this process keeps dragging out, you may have as many contractual rights as your IAM collegues at UAL have once their contract is thrown out, which it probably will be.

 

[RV4]

And when they strike the airline...

...Their management worker that was "in charge with making operations effecient" will then do what for a paycheck?

FEAR can and will be battled with FEAR. Keep up the campaign and watch what happens to your job in the end!

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 3/26/2003 9:25:16 PM eolesen wrote:


If so, management would have already met its $100M goal...

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Who set that goal again?

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

The pro-AMFA crowd at UAL might be up for a strike, but I think you''re overestimating the willingness of other employees to walk out right now.

ALPA and UAL just came to a tentative agreement shortly before the TWU/AA tentative agreement was announced.

If the bottom falls out at AMR, I already have my seniority number with Home Depot, and at this point am just as happy to sell pallets of Pavestone and bags of compost and mulch on a full time basis. At least I know I won''t have to worry about being bumped by a more senior person from the Duluth store...

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 3/27/2003 5:27:52 PM eolesen wrote:

The pro-AMFA crowd at UAL might be up for a strike, but I think you''re overestimating the willingness of other employees to walk out right now.

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Who says they have to walk out right now? They can do it whenever they want. They can wait til the judge abrogotes ours and we can go out at the same time.

 

[RV4]

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On 3/26/2003 9:25:16 PM eolesen wrote:

That would include credit for the 22% furloughs already done, credit for no raises in the past two years, and credit for devalued stock options.

If so, management would have already met its $100M goal...

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I was told management only had $100 Million because you already were given credit for your 22% invisble furloughs.

 

[RV4]

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On 3/27/2003 5:27:52 PM eolesen wrote:

The pro-AMFA crowd at UAL might be up for a strike, but I think you're overestimating the willingness of other employees to walk out right now.

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I think your under estimating the impact the "pro-AMFA" crowd would have on the complete operation. Other employees wouldn't even be allowed in the door to an airline not flying!

Not to mention, the mechanics of the industry are not going to allow corporate greed and ingnorance to strip us of well deserved pay increases after a long 6 year contract that only increased our pay by 3 1/2%. I think the mechanics should be given credit for that sacrifice since management wants to go back many years on their pay, or lack of as it were.

 

[Rational Thought]

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On 3/27/2003 847 PM RV4 wrote:

Not to mention, the mechanics of the industry are not going to allow corporate greed and ingnorance to strip us of well deserved pay increases after a long 6 year contract that only increased our pay by 3 1/2%. I think the mechanics should be given credit for that sacrifice since management wants to go back many years on their pay, or lack of as it were.

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Not to rain on your parade, but you really don''t have a lot of control. The airlines are deregulated. You will gain and lose benefits based on the markets demand for your goods and services. Although your workgroup may have a strong bargaining position, your leverage is weak. What are you gonna do? Strike? And send the airline into bankruptcy....again?

 

[Buck]

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On 3/28/2003 2:00:07 PM Rational Thought wrote:

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On 3/27/2003 847 PM RV4 wrote:

Not to mention, the mechanics of the industry are not going to allow corporate greed and ingnorance to strip us of well deserved pay increases after a long 6 year contract that only increased our pay by 3 1/2%. I think the mechanics should be given credit for that sacrifice since management wants to go back many years on their pay, or lack of as it were.

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Not to rain on your parade, but you really don''t have a lot of control. The airlines are deregulated. You will gain and lose benefits based on the markets demand for your goods and services. Although your workgroup may have a strong bargaining position, your leverage is weak. What are you gonna do? Strike? And send the airline into bankruptcy....again?

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Yes the industry is deregulated. That is why as a mechanic I am federally licensed and a pilot is regulated by the feds and the operation of the aircraft and it''s maintenance is controlled by the feds.

Do not worry about the TWU striking, they have a "No Strike" clause in their contract. The mechanics may vote to strike down a proposal on concessions.