Envoy service

[Bear96]

Your analogy is a poor one. Wal*Mart doesn't charge Nordstroms prices or hold itself out to be a lower cost version of Nordstroms. US holds itself out as a low fare (yes, low fare, not low cost) full service carrier. Their fares are outrageous for the level of service (none) the provide.

Then don't pay the outrageous fares, fly someone else and be happy. (Although with some people here, criticizing LCC 24/7 is what makes them happy; if they couldn't do that, they'd have a big void in their unhappy lives.)

Flightchic's analogy is apt. If you saw an item for sale at WalMart, and the exact same item for the exact same price at Nordstroms, would you buy the item at WalMart and then complain that WalMart was shabby, crowded, and had scary-looking customers compared to Nordstroms (even though you knew ahead of time that WalMart would be shabby, crowded, and have scary-looking customers compared to Nordstroms)? No. You'd simply buy the item at Nordstroms and move on with life.

 

[Twicebaked]

Your analogy is a poor one. Wal*Mart doesn't charge Nordstroms prices or hold itself out to be a lower cost version of Nordstroms. US holds itself out as a low fare (yes, low fare, not low cost) full service carrier. Their fares are outrageous for the level of service (none) the provide.

The same thing you say to FF's, could be said to you... being a reserve sucks and it won't change...so quit and stop complaining about how crappy your life is. Being a reserve is what it is so get over it.

Botoom line is that the airline industry has changed forever!!!!

It will get increasingly more expensive with less service and yes, you will be paying for everything someday!! Especially with fuel climbing the way it is you will be paying more.

We all, employees included, need to let go of the airline of the past............this is our new reality!!!

 

[elcantante]

Botoom line is that the airline industry has changed forever!!!!

It will get increasingly more expensive with less service and yes, you will be paying for everything someday!! Especially with fuel climbing the way it is you will be paying more.

We all, employees included, need to let go of the airline of the past............this is our new reality!!!

hallelujah!! preach it brother S !!!

 

[Twicebaked]

To expand on my above post.....I am really suprised that FFs don't get this concept.

Just take retail.

Back in the day you paid x amount of money for a certain product. Products back in the day were usually well constructed.

Now, you pay MUCH MUCH more for the same product that is IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM THE SAME QUALITY OF A PRODUCT!!!!

Same goes for the airline......you will pay more with less/worse service.

Seems likes simple economics to me!!

Is it right? Probably not..............but!!!!!

 

[US1YFARE]

To expand on my above post.....I am really suprised that FFs don't get this concept.

Just take retail.

Seems likes simple economics to me!!

Is it right? Probably not..............but!!!!!

TB, if what you say is true, then that would be one thing. But it is not. Your former FF's have gotten it. When I fly AA and CO in their premium product which costs the same or less than US, the service and value is better on those carriers from beginning to end. You shouldn't accept arrogance and incompetence as the excuse for the new state of the airline industry. As someone who hasn't spent a dime on US since September and who has spent over 20K since that time on CO and AA, I think I can compare US's horrible product (from beginning to end) to the carriers have been spending a lot of time on.

And if you want to talk about retail. I have a perfect example. The quality about 10 years ago at Banana Republic was in the toilet. I stopped buying clothes there for several years. Then, they improved their quality and did a lot of advertising about that. I have returned as a customer but it cost them a lot more to get me back had they kept me originally. And, their prices are in line with their competition.

The same goes for US. There will come a time when they will be wooing their old US1's back, and it will be much more costly had they done the things necessary yo keep us.

 

[Travelpro72]

This airline is ran this way on purpose. I feel for those FF's that have to experience this service. The whole Walmart/Nordstrom analogy doesn't fit here for the simple fact that we "claim" to be a true LCC yet we charge much more for our product most times. The fares we DO offer are usually matched by competitors yet the competitor offers MUCH more contrary to popular belief. We know the FF's are leaving and being replaced with fake US1's. They are trying to make it out that our FF's membership is through the roof yet they DON'T tell you that the new FF's fly nowhere NEAR what our previous ones did. This will catch up with Usairways in due time, alienating the top tier flier that is. Has this management team done ANYTHING that has come across with much success in the eyes of the employee or the customer? I'd think it safe to say, "No". As for complaining, don't we as reserves do a lot of it knowing that change is basically YEARS away? So why not just sit in our crash pads for days on end suck it up? No sense in complaining about reserve issues on HERE then right? After all it's just the way it is now and we should just get over it and accept it? I think as a customer AND employee we have much to b!tch about and this just seems to be another place to vent. As for the top tier fliers leaving to other carries since they don't like US........**Newsflash**............THEY ARE! They do contribute to the revenue that makes our paycheck possible corrrect? Hmmmmm

 

[phlus2]

Then why are you still flying on us? I agree with flightchic and everyone else, you have a choice of carriers.

And you all have a choice of where to work - so get over it and quit complaining or go work somewhere else.

 

[LCC-STEW]

And you all have a choice of where to work - so get over it and quit complaining or go work somewhere else.

Who says I am complaining? You get over it.

 

[Bear96]

. . . . After all it's just the way it is now and we should just get over it and accept it?

No. You have a choice. EITHER:

(1) accept that this is the way it is now, get over it and accept it;

OR

(2) (if an employee) work within the union bargaining framework to improve things (including changing that framework, if necessary), or find an employer that adequately compensates you for what you feel you are worth

(2) (if a customer) find an airline that you feel provides value for your money.

 

[US1YFARE]

(2) (if a customer) find an airline that you feel provides value for your money.

I have and it is wonderful. Just want everyone know how the "competition" fares...oh that is funny...competition...there is no comparison.

 

[Bear96]

I have and it is wonderful.

So then why the never-ending whining? It seems like you have solved the problem, at least as far as your travel needs are concerned.

I don't shop at Walmart because frankly it creeps me out. So I shop elsewhere. Yet, strangely, I don't spend big chunks of time complaining about how terrible Walmart is and asking anonymous people on the internet why doesn't Walmart do X, Y and Z like my preferred stores do. I just don't shop there, and I don't waste my time obsessing about how terrible I think it is.

 

[Travelpro72]

How many passengers do we have to P!SS off and tell to go elsewhere if you don't like it before it catches up with us? We as employees are FREE to work elsewhere yet we HATE to hear the dreaded "well just quit". This management has taken two airlines and thrown them together to create a jumbled mess. People are not allowed to complain? Imagine how many passengers out there don't know about usaviation or flyertalk that feel as our "complainers" on here feel. It's a very arrogant way to do business. Let's say your sitting in Denny's and saying "Oh excuse me miss, these eggs are runny". Only to hear back, "Well we are tired of the complainers so why don't you quit coming here and just go to Perkins"? Imagine the jaw dropping look you'd give. It AMAZES me that we can become so disgusted with our OWN jobs and issues that we tell our paying passengers to leave and quit your b!tching. This place is doomed to fail with that kind of attitude. It makes you NO BETTER than the morons in Tempe running the place. I'm sure they LOVE to see your support in telling passengers that.

 

[vantheman63]

Botoom line is that the airline industry has changed forever!!!!

I have to jump in here for a sec.....

I, for one, actually believe aviation and air travel overall has changed....for the better. Markedly.

PERFORMANCE: Overall, I believe "on time" performance, even including US, is better now then it was, in, say, 1998. Some might argue with me...but I remember '98 and '99 well....4 hours late was a fairly "regular" occurrence. I don't find that much any more. In fact, (and I'm probably going to jinx myself when I say this) I can't remember being more than an hour late in a very, very long time....unless it was weather related. Now, to be fair (and I'm not "whining") the bulk of my flying has moved away from US....but the times I've flown US, I might be a half hour late or something...but that's not the end of the world for me.

PRICE: In the '90s, I use to spend $40,000 a year flying....ALL of it was coach. Every friggin flight. I never bought F....and GOD FORBID if you "forgot" to buy your tix two or three weeks out. I remember needing to get to DFW from PVD...and I forgot to buy the ticket. It was like $1,400 the day of the show. COACH! Fast forward to now....you can walk up, the day of the show and get from PVD-SFO for $700 R/T....and F is, like, $1,600.

I think, this year, on my own personal travel, I spent $32K traveling....and I don't often rely on upgrades nor do I ride in the back. And, again, not whining, I did send my accounting books to US and CO to show them how I'm spending my travel dollar these days. So, this isn't whining, this is fact:

2005 Spent on US as a % - 84.2%
2006 Spent on US as a % - 34.6% (Started moving travel to UA & CO)
2007 Spent on US as a % - 33.0% (Bought Envoy tix, pricey)

2005 Spent on CO as a % - 0.0%
2006 Spent on CO as a % - 15.6%
2007 Spent on CO as a % - 41.5%

IN FLIGHT SERVICE: I actually believe it's gotten better for most carriers. Sure, CO feeds a person free, but I'm TOTALLY okay with "Buy On Board" and the lower air fare. Totally okay with that. Now, I do believe US in-flight has actually gotten worse. (Again, NOT whining) But I don't find that with other carriers. UA E+ is a SUPER product.....WN and B6 have pretty darned spacious Y cabins. Sure, we can't ask for playing cards any more....and we don't get meals served on Aladin trays, but does anyone miss that?

So, yeah, I think airline travel has changed forever....and in many cases, I think it has changed for the better.

It will get increasingly more expensive with less service and yes, you will be paying for everything someday!! Especially with fuel climbing the way it is you will be paying more.

I believe it will be different this time. I think there is some sanity in the aviation business now and because of the rationalized inventory, and the lack of carriers just adding sets maddly without consideration, the industry will be able to pass increases along. Of course, it takes one crazy move and that all changes....but I'll bet we don't see it this time around.

We all, employees included, need to let go of the airline of the past............this is our new reality!!!

I believe the biggest changes have been the productivity gains airlines have made in terms of their work groups. That being said, I'm not sure all of it is completely "fair." Airline management is still VERY layered and still over-compensated, from my vantage point. However, I think the overwhelming majority of CEOs are overpaid. I own a company (more then one actually) and I'm absolutely the lowest paid employee in one of them....and in the other, I do have a company car, so technically, that makes me about on par with the others. I find it silly that people like Mr. Parker and other managers make 20 to 40 times what a person on the front line makes.

 

[Bear96]

People are not allowed to complain?

Where did I ever suggest you are not "allowed" to complain?

I am just suggesting that perhaps instead of complaining, your time and energy might be better spend looking for another airline to work at or to patronize.

Let's say your sitting in Denny's and saying "Oh excuse me miss, these eggs are runny". Only to hear back, "Well we are tired of the complainers so why don't you quit coming here and just go to Perkins"? Imagine the jaw dropping look you'd give.

If I were that customer, I would simply go to Perkins, without all the drama of some of the FF'ers here.

 

[vantheman63]

If I were that customer, I would simply go to Perkins, without all the drama of some of the FF'ers here.

Bear96, I think you are completely correct here.....in defense of those of us who have complained, and I'm certainly one of them, I think it's more out of intense loyalty and sense of loss.

There are a number of us, again, I'm one of 'em, who've been loyal with US for many years. In my case, 1987. I did send a letter to the executive management, all of them, with scanned copies of my "Elite" credentials, going back to my 1990 Priority Gold Plus card with an explanation that went like this:

"US has carried me to my wedding, honeymoon, births, birthdays, funerals, family events, parties, business meetings, vacations, concerts…..almost anything that requires air transportation. I birthed my company, ***********, Inc. via a US flight from CLT-SFO in 2004. I could actually argue, probably accurately, that outside my primary residence, I’ve spent more money on this company and its product, then anything else in my life. And without a doubt, US Air/US Airways has been amongst the most important companies and products in my life."

The change that's happened has just been difficult, and many of us believe, unnecessary....and that doesn't make us right, just sad and with a sense of loss.

Honestly, there is a much deeper reason then me simply being a customer as to why I continue to even check in here....but I have to admit, the anger, sadness and sense of loss is fading....now it's just reality and I've moved on.

There is still a piece of me that wants to b***h and moan loudly because I do feel ripped of to the point I contemplated filing a grievance with the AZ AG.

HOWEVER, I'm a big believer in "Positive Mental Attitude," plus, I don't have the time to do it. Yeah, the company beat me like a drum out of a crap-load of dough on a dozen Envoy tix this summer....and that sealed the deal and lesson for me.

But I do believe your right...and so are the others hear who've said, "just go away already and stop complaining/whining/b****ing about it."

I just wonder what will happen when everyone who once was is gone....

It's kinda like a train wreck....hard to turn away and stop watching it.