Eagle Sale Still Being Considered

[jimntx]

<_< jimntx-----I don't want to confuse the issue, but isn't the TWA lawsuit about all about Money, not Senority? Or am we talking about the same Lawsuit? They win, you still keep your Senority, but Bankrupt your Union!!! If that happens, your vote won't matter much anyway!

I don't really know the details of the surviving TWA lawsuit. Even if it is about the money, negotiating seniority might be the only way that APFA could "pay up." I heard that with the loss of 6000+ dues paying members, the union is having financial problems already.

The thing that still gripes me is the refusal by APFA of any help from the vastly more experienced negotiators from the TWA ranks in the RPA process. There were concessions the union could have made that would have resulted in NO flight attendants being furloughed. And no, I don't know what those concessions would have consisted of, but I've talked with f/a's that I know at other airlines and their response was "Oh yeah, there are all kinds of things you can do if your first priority is saving jobs. We do it all the time." Well, it seems obvious to me that saving jobs was not APFA's first priority.

 

[amcnd]

If Eagle was sold. AA would retain all control of Eagle ,just as CO did wiht COEX a 20 year all RJ feed no competing deal. Scope is gone. Eagle can fly about 500, 50 seat RJ's if AA wanted them to. The real question is the 70-100 seat RJ's. Will the APA give up scope on those to save there pention? The only way AA could make money on those aircraft is with Eagle wages across the baord.

The other problem with selling Eagle is the 16% profit Eagle make goes right back into AMR's pocket. Were as TSA/CHQ keep that money. Regardless Eagle is set up for a sale. Why else would they go to a 20 year fee for departure deal that make Eagle a money. If AMR was going to keep Eagle they would of never split the money off the way they did.

 

[AirwAr]

If Eagle was sold. AA would retain all control of Eagle ,just as CO did wiht COEX a 20 year all RJ feed no competing deal. Scope is gone. Eagle can fly about 500, 50 seat RJ's if AA wanted them to. The real question is the 70-100 seat RJ's. Will the APA give up scope on those to save there pention? The only way AA could make money on those aircraft is with Eagle wages across the baord.
...

Didn't the APA already effectively give up scope? They agreed to allow domestic codesharing with other airlines so this would include not only aircraft in the 70-100 seat range but everything else. AA has already setup a codeshare with Alaska.

I don't know how important it is to the APA to keep Eagle in the family, but if they don't find a way to peacefully co-exist, management will just spin them off and give them the 100 seaters. If AA can codshare on Alaska's 737s, surely they could codeshare on Eagle's ERJ 190s.

Given the choice of allowing Eagle to operate 100 seaters as part of AMR or as a separate company, which would the APA choose? Do they care?

 

[AirwAr]

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The only way AA could make money on those aircraft is with Eagle wages across the baord.
...

We all took paycuts last year, how much of a paycut would AA have to take to make it worthwhile to place the 100 seaters at AA? If the FA's and pilots flew the airplane for free, would that reduce the costs enough to make it work?

 

[Winglet]

The union still has scope restrictions on the 70+ seat aircraft. Domestic code share is case by case. The APA also just won it's case against the reverse code sharing scam by management.

 

[AAviator]

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The only way AA could make money on those aircraft is with Eagle wages across the baord.
...

We all took paycuts last year, how much of a paycut would AA have to take to make it worthwhile to place the 100 seaters at AA? If the FA's and pilots flew the airplane for free, would that reduce the costs enough to make it work?

Thats a crock. CO is flying 104 seat 737's. The 737 family goes up to the 177 seat (2 class) -900. NW is flying 100 seat DC9-30's. The Embraer 170/70seat -108/118 seat 195 family covers a large portion of current F100, and MD80 flying. Who ever thinks the only way AA could make money with the E-jets at Eagle is smoking something.

 

[AAviator]

If Eagle was sold. AA would retain all control of Eagle ,just as CO did wiht COEX a 20 year all RJ feed no competing deal. Scope is gone. Eagle can fly about 500, 50 seat RJ's if AA wanted them to. The real question is the 70-100 seat RJ's. Will the APA give up scope on those to save there pention? The only way AA could make money on those aircraft is with Eagle wages across the baord.
...

Didn't the APA already effectively give up scope? They agreed to allow domestic codesharing with other airlines so this would include not only aircraft in the 70-100 seat range but everything else. AA has already setup a codeshare with Alaska.

I don't know how important it is to the APA to keep Eagle in the family, but if they don't find a way to peacefully co-exist, management will just spin them off and give them the 100 seaters. If AA can codshare on Alaska's 737s, surely they could codeshare on Eagle's ERJ 190s.

Given the choice of allowing Eagle to operate 100 seaters as part of AMR or as a separate company, which would the APA choose? Do they care?

There is nothing to prevent TSA, or CHQ from buying 757's, 767's, or even 777's right now. Why haven't they?

AE would have to be a viable stand alone entity to fall under the acceptability language for domestic code share in the contract. AE needs AA feed to exist. The codeshare you present would not be legal in the current contract language. AA isn't simply "free" to codeshare with who and when they please, agreement is still required from/with APA. If the parties don't agree, it gets submitted to arbitration. Here's some partial language:

4. In forming the award, the arbitrator will utilize the terms of the thenexisting
domestic codeshare agreements among domestic air carriers and
the provisions of then-existing collective bargaining agreements for pilots
at United, Delta, Northwest, Continental and USAirways airlines that are
relevant to domestic codesharing. The Arbitrator will apply those
agreements to establish an industry standard domestic codeshare
agreement for the period of that agreement that is fair to the pilots.
5. The subjects to be considered by the parties and submitted to the
arbitrator, if agreement cannot be reached, shall include, but not be limited
to:
a. Procedures for reciprocal codesharing;
b. Terms of codesharing on flights between and from the Company’s and
the Domestic Air Carrier’s hubs and focus cities;
c. Conditions for codesharing on flying in overlapping markets;
d. Conditions for blocked space arrangements;
e. Code sharing on International Flying;
f. Codesharing on regional jet flying by the Domestic Air Carrier’s
associated regional airlines and commuter carriers, if any;
g. Block hour limitations;
h. Joint marketing limitations;
i. Adequate protections for existing AA flying;
j. The mutual benefits to the Company and the American Airlines pilots.
6. The interest arbitration will be pursuant to the Railway Labor Act.
7. The interest arbitrator will retain jurisdiction to resolve questions and
disputes about the implementation of his award.

 

[amcnd]

First of all JetBlue has said the E-190 is going to cost 15% more to operate then the A320. Secon,d in this bussiness it would be dumb to think AA could efectively operate the E-170-190 and make any kind of good profit. sure they could break even, but the company wants about a 16% profit margin at the least. Eagle pay and benifits are the olny way to aquire the sustained profitability for the next 10+ years. Yes Eagel could be spined off hen AMR could turn them into a domestic code share partner with the APA's blessing. If the APA does'nt give the blessing then im sure there is a plan B.

 

[AAviator]

Comic. Where did you come up with the 16% figure? AE is not showing those profits because it has low costs. AE CASM is more than twice AA's. You forget, AE operates where there is almost no low cost competion and can still soak the business traveler.



"Eagle pay and benifits are the olny way to aquire the sustained profitability for the next 10+ years." I guess I know where you work.

 

[AAviator]

For what its worth, moving the 70 seat RJ's to AA are on the negotiating committe's agenda. It hasn't been scheduled yet, but on the 11/03 agenda. Also, the 100 seat topic is being worked on as we speak, with APA, APFA, and Jeff Brundage.