DOT Approves AS/AA LAX-MEX Route Swap

[Platinum Steve]

Airlines say what they need to say to the DOT. What happens in real life is considerable different.
 

Saw this on the last post.  It's so crazy that I had to open up a WT post to check it out for myself.  Yep.  There it is in all it's glory.

So, WT - are you suggesting that it is Delta's corporate policy to be willfully disingenuous with the DOT when it comes to route authorities?  If it's a concious decision/policy (as you suggest), then some would call that fraud.  I'm not a lawyer, but I know that fraud is typically a bad thing and gets people into heaps and heaps of trouble. 

Come to think of it, maybe WT is onto something.  Maybe this is the corporate policy at Delta.  Maybe DOT figured that out in the HND case.  And maybe - just maybe - that's why they put such tight handcuffs on Delta on the SEA-HND route.  Now it makes sense.  Thanks for helping me understand that, WT. 

I'll be putting the ignore back on now.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Perhaps DL needs to be contacted to comment on the allegation made by one of their retirees regarding DL's routine practice of "saying what they need to say to the DOT" even if those statements to the DOT are at odds with reality.

 

[Platinum Steve]

Perhaps DL needs to be contacted to comment on the allegation made by one of their retirees regarding DL's routine practice of "saying what they need to say to the DOT" even if those statements to the DOT are at odds with reality.

And, evidently, intent.

 

[MAH4546]

Further positioning itself as the single largest U.S. carrier between LAX and Mexico, AA has applied with DOT to launch daily Los Angeles-Mazatlan eff. 7 November 2015. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

Indeed, Delta is maxed out at peak times, which is why you won't see Delta fly to ORD or DCA/IAD anytime soon.  They can add one or two flights at the margins, they just can't add a roster of flights to a single destination.
 
Approval of their joint venture with AM would have helped as they would have had more mass at T2 to attempt a split operation.  At the moment, Delta has no other options.

 

you THINK they have no options.

you PRAY they have no options.

DL does indeed have options to grow at LAX.

and if anything DL is more likely to bring AM into T5 and 6. The reason why DL doesn't want its longhaul JV partners in T5 or 6 is because they fly widebodies that take up lots of room which DL can't afford to give up.

DL can put 757s on flights to Mexico and use less gate space than DL's longhaul JV partners use.
 

Saw this on the last post.  It's so crazy that I had to open up a WT post to check it out for myself.  Yep.  There it is in all it's glory.

So, WT - are you suggesting that it is Delta's corporate policy to be willfully disingenuous with the DOT when it comes to route authorities?  If it's a concious decision/policy (as you suggest), then some would call that fraud.  I'm not a lawyer, but I know that fraud is typically a bad thing and gets people into heaps and heaps of trouble. 

Come to think of it, maybe WT is onto something.  Maybe this is the corporate policy at Delta.  Maybe DOT figured that out in the HND case.  And maybe - just maybe - that's why they put such tight handcuffs on Delta on the SEA-HND route.  Now it makes sense.  Thanks for helping me understand that, WT. 

I'll be putting the ignore back on now.

again, you and others twist what I said and what DL said.

DL didn't say it couldn't add another flight.

DL said they are near the limits of what they can grow at LAX because of space limitations BASED ON WHAT THEY CURRENTLY HAVE.

A JV with AM does help DL because AM doesn't use DL's facilities.

It is hardly the only argument for whether the JV will be approved or not.

It also doesn't mean for a minute that DL doesn't have options.

and again AA never bothered to tell the DOT that it intended to cancel its LAX-NRT flight but did so it was increasing competition.

Cutting one flight in order to add another is not exactly enhancing competition.
 
 

Further positioning itself as the single largest U.S. carrier between LAX and Mexico, AA has applied with DOT to launch daily Los Angeles-Mazatlan eff. 7 November 2015.

excellent....competition is good.

let us know when DL puts up the "no room at the inn" sign and waves the white flag and surrenders the market to AA.
me thinks you will be waiting awhile.

How about you and others provide a list of markets that DL serves but AA does not - and in some cases neither does any other carrier before you are convinced that DL doesn't have as equally as impressive list of flights?

I know one that AA and UA don't and won't operate - HND.

 

[commavia]

Fear, fear, fear.
 
In other news, did anyone else read the joint AA/Alaska response to the tentative DOT decision, following Delta's objections, that was filed today?  They literally did not even address any of Delta's complaints (the word "Delta" wasn't mentioned once in the text of the statement), and the partners simply thanked the DOT for its decision and confirmed the intent to launch service this summer.  Haha.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so DL is doing to AA/AS the same thing that AA did with the HND route - not change anything but slow down and mess with the process for their competitor. By filing objections, the DOJ has to formulate a response.

the difference is that AA won't get a HND route while DL will be starting LAX-MEX as well.

the only fear is from AA who is afraid that they won't really succeed at their plan to build out LAX to Mexico because DL might do the same thing that it has done with Asia - just add more flights and take back the title which AA said it was intending to obtain - the largest US airline from LAX to Asia.

btw, a daily 175 to MZT isn't going to result in any title switching.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

again, you and others twist what I said and what DL said.

 
That's quite the allegation.  Let's have a look at the Whole Truth:
 

Airlines say what they need to say to the DOT. What happens in real life is considerable different.

 
Spin your way out of that.

 

[WorldTraveler]

spin your way out of AA's statements that AA would increase competition to Tokyo with the LAX-HND route even though they intended to cancel their LAX-NRT flight.

btw, looks like AA is getting some ULCC competition from GDL to DFW....
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/volaris-inaugurate-guadalajara-dallas-233000585.html

 

[commavia]

Fear, fear, fear.

 

[700UW]

What does HND have to do with the topic of AS and AA swapping the LAX-MEX flight?

 

[LDVAviation]

Fear, fear, fear.
 
In other news, did anyone else read the joint AA/Alaska response to the tentative DOT decision, following Delta's objections, that was filed today?  They literally did not even address any of Delta's complaints (the word "Delta" wasn't mentioned once in the text of the statement), and the partners simply thanked the DOT for its decision and confirmed the intent to launch service this summer.  Haha.

 
...It is absolutely absurd how someone who has no insider knowledge of what happens at LAX (or even Delta for that matter) and doesn't even live in the Los Angeles area pretends to know more about the airport and the local market than those of us who live here and have friends/relatives who work at the airport and for companies that account for a lot of the corporate travel from LAX.
 
Thankfully, the real estate costs are too high in LA for this fool to think of moving here.  Atlanta dollars don't get you very much in LA.

 

[Kev3188]

What does HND have to do with the topic of AS and AA swapping the LAX-MEX flight?

Or GDL-DFW, for that matter...

 

[topDawg]

Gotta love these threads. 
 
WT and the AA version of WT trying to see who has the bigger dick while both looking so amazingly foolish..... 
 
 
but hey, it looks like it has been on topic for 8 or so pages so i guess thats a nice change. 

 

Thankfully, the real estate costs are too high in LA for this fool to think of moving here.  Atlanta dollars don't get you very much in LA.

Lol yes you spend more for less....winning if i have ever heard it. :blink:  smfh

 

Or GDL-DFW, for that matter...

nothing, but when these two clearly have nothing better to then than have some creepy obsession with AA or DL then you gotta hit all those targets.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm just waiting for
a. AA to actually REALLY become the largest airline at LAX in more than just the domestic market and to Europe (just among US airlines) by the mere addition of just one more flight than DL and UA.

and

b. for DL to actually stop growing because it is out of space.

we have heard for years that DL would be out of space and AA would amass some gigantic real estate fortune that would allow it to move from being JUST the largest domestic airline - and that took the US merger to ensure DL and UA didn't overtake AA.


further, despite starting LAX-LHR going into the winter, DOT results show that DL managed to get half of the local market share of AA and UA and also generate average revenues that are within a few dollars of UA - which is pretty close to the market average.

Further, it is worth noting that DL got far closer to AA's average fare in LAX-LHR where AA is the high fare leader than AA gets to DL's average fare in LAX-NRT where AA has been flying for years.

All of the gates at LAX clearly don't matter if AA can't generate the revenues necessary to compete with the top fare carriers in a market.

Meanwhile, DL started a new route to Europe going into the winter and ended up with higher average fares relative to the market than AA has in other markets that it has been serving for years.

no, it's not fear.

It's pure joy.
and something besides buying a route from AS and the addition of one flight on LAX-MEX for the net addition of ONE LAX-MEX flight to the market AND the addition of an Ejet on a new route.

I hold AA fankids here to the same standard I hold unions - prove your stuff or get off the pot.

based on the most recent DOT data, DL has once again tied PMAA for the same market share from LAX. It is only because of the merger that AA has actually kept up with the competition at LAX.

I can't wait to see AA and DL go head to head to Mexico.

based on what DL has done in LGA-MIA, JFK-LAX, and JFK-SJU, AA backbone routes that DL has entered and done very well, LAX-MEX should be yet one more market where DL will take the lead.