CWA local leader recommends...VOTE NO!!

[ANNother Voice]

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On 1/3/2003 8:08:50 PM ANNother Voice wrote:

question
how will adding mainline flts to express dest keep mainline working...these flt will no doubt be hub flts, so if you were working 6 flts in 8 hrs in a hub..maybe you work 7...i dont see them adding personnel for this..i guess if you are in a hub and have some seniority it is ok,
but there is an awful lot of agts who dont.
__________________

This is a great question... I see growth in allowing these possibilities in our changing environment. Voting against it, I only see our demise.

When I look at what we are being asked to give up, personally, it only affects my benefits, which I was told that I can change before the new rates take effect. Other than that, the flying in Express cities, and the help at the counter doesn't amount to losing jobs. If the company can't afford to fly mainline flights into these small markets today, they won't. I don't see this as a question of mainline jobs in Express cities vs contract or Express jobs, I see this as us flying intermittently into Express or us not flying at all.

I just can't believe that RSA is bluffing. It is too much of a gamble for me. ----------------


we are all allowed to interpret this as we choose...you see it one way. myself, a different way
which ever way it unfolds i wish you well


Thanks....same to you. I hope we are all here to wish each other well at the start of next year.

 

[sdavis29]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/3/2003 7:49:22 PM ANNother Voice wrote:
[P]while their is no direct call for layoffs, the languauge does allow for sars...ie q the line, assist pax with check in and boarding passes....granted these jobs can be done for a lot less pay than what is being payed now...what it will do is in leau of layoffs, it will effectively reduce pay for a good % of cust service agts as sars can be utilized in many more stations then just the hubs...we would also be voting blind as there is no information as to the process of adding sars...[BR][BR]there are a lot of smaller station that operate both mainline and express flts to the same dest...by using rjs to increase seats for flts used by express, they can easily use 2 mainline flts a day..peak am and pm to carry the heaviest loads and to carry the mail and frt still traveling... by doing this they can close many small stations to express or mda....while still keeping there "279" and crews in the air....[BR][BR]the t/a for mech,,,they already know their numbers..the t/a for afa/alpa..they can come real close with projected available aircraft and faa minimums....as for cwa and i would imagine fsa...[BR]it is kinda like signing a blank check..[BR][BR][BR][BR]________________[BR][BR]Yes, you are right about the SARS taking over our work at the counter but it is the easier work that anyone can handle and the by adding mainline flights in Express stations, it allows those of us who are currently mainline to keep working. Remember, part of this TA is that the company commits to flying a certain number of mainline flights, which I was told is the number they currently operate. This does not include the RJ flying that will be added. Therefore, those of us that are here, should stay for the most part. I don't see the kiosk machines growing to the point that it will take all of the agent jobs away. I don't know about you, but lately, I would welcome the help from SARS or anyone else who was willing to deal with customers at the counter.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]question[BR]how will adding mainline flts to express dest keep mainline working...these flt will no doubt be hub flts, so if you were working 6 flts in 8 hrs in a hub..maybe you work 7...i dont see them adding personnel for this..i guess if you are in a hub and have some seniority it is ok,[BR]but there is an awful lot of agts who dont.[BR][BR] [/P]

 

[sdavis29]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/3/2003 8:08:50 PM ANNother Voice wrote:
[P]question[BR]how will adding mainline flts to express dest keep mainline working...these flt will no doubt be hub flts, so if you were working 6 flts in 8 hrs in a hub..maybe you work 7...i dont see them adding personnel for this..i guess if you are in a hub and have some seniority it is ok,[BR]but there is an awful lot of agts who dont.[BR]__________________[BR][BR]This is a great question... I see growth in allowing these possibilities in our changing environment. Voting against it, I only see our demise. [BR][BR]When I look at what we are being asked to give up, personally, it only affects my benefits, which I was told that I can change before the new rates take effect. Other than that, the flying in Express cities, and the help at the counter doesn't amount to losing jobs. If the company can't afford to fly mainline flights into these small markets today, they won't. I don't see this as a question of mainline jobs in Express cities vs contract or Express jobs, I see this as us flying intermittently into Express or us not flying at all.[BR][BR]I just can't believe that RSA is bluffing. It is too much of a gamble for me. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]we are all allowed to interpret this as we choose...you see it one way. myself, a different way[BR]which ever way it unfolds i wish you well[BR][BR][BR][/P]

 

[ANNother Voice]

question
how will adding mainline flts to express dest keep mainline working...these flt will no doubt be hub flts, so if you were working 6 flts in 8 hrs in a hub..maybe you work 7...i dont see them adding personnel for this..i guess if you are in a hub and have some seniority it is ok,
but there is an awful lot of agts who dont.
__________________

This is a great question... I see growth in allowing these possibilities in our changing environment. Voting against it, I only see our demise.

When I look at what we are being asked to give up, personally, it only affects my benefits, which I was told that I can change before the new rates take effect. Other than that, the flying in Express cities, and the help at the counter doesn't amount to losing jobs. If the company can't afford to fly mainline flights into these small markets today, they won't. I don't see this as a question of mainline jobs in Express cities vs contract or Express jobs, I see this as us flying intermittently into Express or us not flying at all.

I just can't believe that RSA is bluffing. It is too much of a gamble for me.

 

[MrAeroMan]

[blockquote]
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On 1/3/2003 5:46:19 PM Robc98 wrote:

It is my belief that this "MrAeroman" is probably a member of this wonderful management team...his posts are pro company and he has yet to identify himself as to his occupation with this airline....or is he one of our prestiged flyers who has nothing better to do but sit here and stir the flames....fight the good fight!!
----------------
[/blockquote]
No RobC, I am not a member of the management team as you suspect nor am I one of the people who pay the bills for U.

I use to be a FSA that was furloughed in 1993. I played the game of moving from city to city to save my job and finally tired of it. I have since moved on but I can tell you one thing, things weren't like I thought they were when I was furloughed. I couldn't get a job making half what I was making at U. Therefore I finished my degree and took a job making far less than I was at U. This is the first year since furlough that I've made more than I did my last year at U. The grass isn't always as green as you portray it. I can say that because I've been there.
I have many friends in several stations both FSA, CSA. I have family and many friends also that are pilots, F/A's, mechanics and in management. People are scared of the rhetoric people like you spout off about on here. You can't logically respond to any of the items the management team has offered. You offer no logical reasoning for the union stance you take on here and then attack people who call you on it. That's fine with me. I have a thick skin and it doesn't bother me as it apparently bothers you. Maybe some people believe what you say but my guess is most don't. While the vote will undoubtedly be close my hope is it will pass. Not for me but for those that truly have no where else to go or those that don't mind staying.

 

[Robc98]

Since you've been gone for 10 yrs then why do u feel the need to give your input...you havent been part of this regime since Wolfe took over....everyone is pissed off and theyve had enough....Im glad u got over the hump and are now financially somewhat stable....but your posts on here along with quite a few others are a big distraction..especially coming from people who are not part of this.......

 

[Robc98]

well im done entertaining you with a tennis match here... we can go for days....i currently hold a position as an officer in this union ..i know a lot of what jim root has done and said all along for the last 3 years....ive disagreed with many of his thoughts and probably will continue....but i will always feel along with thousands of others that this mgmt team is bent on turning U into the walmart of airlines...for no reason other than there personal gains.....that being said I wish all your friends who are part of this airline all the luck and hopefully they have the seniority to keep their jobs when it is all said and done....i personally have not decided on whether to vote yes or no....im part of the new mainline/express division so my fate is sealed......

 

[ANNother Voice]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/4/2003 1130 AM deltawatch wrote:

"Guys like James Root have no clue and CWA members are following them like the Pied Piper".

I bet you're wrong, I think James Root voted no for one of two reasons. And he is entitled to a vote.

1-His job is political, he probably went back to CLT and checked the pulse of the membership, realized that this is a very bad deal no one will accept and that his unions reputation is on the line.

Or

2- he has integrity in a corporate world (Unions included) were only greed thrives.

----------------
[/blockquote]
NO - he was taking a little bit of heat right before his vacation and copped out. He got too emotional about fleet service, which was obvious in his note, and took the easy way out without thinking of the overall impact his "personal opinion" would have on the vote.

His union leadership didn't like the fact that Siegel told them the consequences of a NO vote but they obviously believed it since they are telling us to vote YES. My local president told us to vote YES based on the union leadership's recommendation. I don't know how she will vote and that is up to her.

When a local president publicly voices their personal opinion (in their leadership role) which is contrary to the public recommendation from the union....it is nothing short of irresponsible and we all pay for it.

 

[ANNother Voice]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/4/2003 1108 AM Robc98 wrote:

well im done entertaining you with a tennis match here... we can go for days....i currently hold a position as an officer in this union ..i know a lot of what jim root has done and said all along for the last 3 years....ive disagreed with many of his thoughts and probably will continue....but i will always feel along with thousands of others that this mgmt team is bent on turning U into the walmart of airlines...for no reason other than there personal gains.....that being said I wish all your friends who are part of this airline all the luck and hopefully they have the seniority to keep their jobs when it is all said and done....i personally have not decided on whether to vote yes or no....im part of the new mainline/express division so my fate is sealed......
----------------
[/blockquote]
I hope your vote is a Yes vote since there would at least be a hope for growth in the future. I voted Yes. The way I see it, a No vote puts our fate in the hands of an investor, who has already publicly stated that he will pull out. I don't know if anyone knows Bronner well enough to be certain that he is bluffing but when I look at the money involved.... I can't believe that he wouldn't pull out. Good Luck in your decision.

 

[MrAeroMan]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/4/2003 9:59:39 AM Robc98 wrote:

Since you've been gone for 10 yrs then why do u feel the need to give your input...you havent been part of this regime since Wolfe took over....everyone is pissed off and theyve had enough....Im glad u got over the hump and are now financially somewhat stable....but your posts on here along with quite a few others are a big distraction..especially coming from people who are not part of this.......
----------------
[/blockquote]

We are a part of it when it affects our family and friends. I'd do anything for my family and friends and when I see them stressed and worried due to this bs that is being spread on here you bet I'm going to stand up with them. There is a thing called freedom of speech Rob and a lot of people have died for you and I to be having this conversation. I'm sure you'd love it if your side was the dominant side on these boards. I was content to just read and reflect but when the lies began flowing and a very few people were pointing out the obvious and getting slammed for it I felt I needed to respond.
You're being lied to Rob. Guys like James Root have no clue and CWA members are following them like the Pied Piper. That's scary when their vote affects your life. If they're that unhappy the LEAVE. If it's so much better out there then do themselves a favor and get out. It'd be better for all involved especially the pax.
Did it ever occur to you as to what specialized training James has to make such a suggestion? My guess would be none. He was a agent that won an election and now he's got an office in a strip mall. That hardly gives him the expertise needed to make such a recommendation.

 

[deltawatch]

"Guys like James Root have no clue and CWA members are following them like the Pied Piper".

I bet you're wrong, I think James Root voted no for one of two reasons. And he is entitled to a vote.

1-His job is political, he probably went back to CLT and checked the pulse of the membership, realized that this is a very bad deal no one will accept and that his unions reputation is on the line.

Or

2- he has integrity in a corporate world (Unions included) were only greed thrives.

 

[jetsandprops]

How much does jet blue pay for these same jobs?

 

[real world]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/2/2003 5:07:11 PM Gone4Now wrote:

THE FOLLOWING IS TAKEN FROM THE WEB PAGE OF CWA LOCAL 3641

Dear Members

I have received the updated concession package, a copy has been mailed to all. The changes are what we are voting on now. The vote also has been backed up to start on Friday, Dec. 27th and to end on January 10th. The same pen number and information will be used to cast your vote. For those who had already cast a vote, you will have to vote again using the same pen number and information.

Your CWA bargaining team agreed to send something out for a vote under the threat of liquidation. It needs to be clear that only under this threat is the CWA bargaining team sending it to be voted on. There is No Doubt in some cases agents will be voting themselves out of a job. The Company would like you to believe that if you have something to come back to it will be OK but for many it is not.

During Dave’s speech to the CWA and afterwards Doug McKeene, said that the Company had to become more productive. I for one find it very hard to believe that, by giving the Fleet Service our express language when they had none, is being more productive. We started this Local with 22 Mainline cities, we now have less than half that amount, so it is clear to me that the Company will do what it intends to do no matter what language is in the contract.

I feel the Company got seasonal flying into our express cities during the last concessions and that was good enough. To allow the Company to have 2 mainline flights into every express city is to allow the pilots to have jobs, the flight attendants to have jobs, but no customer service jobs for mainline. If they wanted to use this as a way to test a new market I would be inclined to allow that, but to let existing cities go express with 2 mainline flights would speed up the Mainline job loss. That is something that I am not in favor of.

I know that many of you don’t know what to do. I for one have prayed to find my answer. My decision is a personal one. I will vote NO. The CWA cannot read its members minds, so let us know how you feel with your vote. The leadership of this local (E-Board) will be able to answer any questions that you may have during the voting period. I myself will not be back in the office until Jan. 3rd.

Thank you all and I hope everyone has a Happy Holiday Season.

Sincerely James Root, President Local 3641
----------------
[/blockquote]


I have never met a more neurotic, spineless group of union leadership in my life. They remind me of a certain country in the second world war, switching sides at he last mintue instead of taking a stand. Make up your mind, lead your memebership and walk away from the negotiating table and honor your deal. What kind of indivdual is leading us that is so confused during the negotiations that they have no idea what to do. I have learned more about the lack of leadership at the CWA than ever before, I am very disappointted and I have voted yes, I have more confidence right now in the leadership of U than I do in the CWA, at least they have a plan.

 

[deltawatch]

A well managed company that cares about its employees and has been around for a while pays $25.00 an hour. Southwest

For the record in my city I could not find one agent that voted yes.

 

[sdavis29]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/4/2003 2:35:38 PM real world wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/4/2003 1:08:56 PM deltawatch wrote: [BR][BR]A well managed company that cares about its employees and has been around for a while pays $25.00 an hour. Southwest[BR][BR]For the record in my city I could not find one agent that voted yes. [BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Because telling people you voted yes is not what you want to hear and they would probably rather not have that discusion with you so they told you what they wanted you hear. I for one voted Yes and so did all of my colleagues that want to have a job.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]real world[BR]i am not trying to add any more fuel to this fire as i dont think it needs any.[BR]i will tell you that of the people i worked with who i keep in touch with, most have or are leaning to the no side.[BR]i recieved an email from a friend who is still at the ato and he seemed pretty bleak...the jist i got from him is that it will not pass....this is coming from an ato where 20years might keep you on the bubble...[BR] i hope for all who want to stay he is wrong...[BR][BR]