CLT -vs- PIT

[FutureUScapt]

Remember too that O&D is not a number that is "set in stone." It varies inversely with the cost of air fares at that airport. So while PIT and CLT have comparable numbers of O&D traffic, the average air fare is 15% higher in CLT than in PIT. So even with higher air fares and a smaller MSA, CLT and PIT are about on par with each other as far as O&D traffic goes, though PIT may see some leakage to CLE. Similarly, RDU and CLT have similar O&D numbers (in spite of CLT being a larger MSA), but the average fare in RDU is on par with PIT, or about 15% less than what it is in CLT.

Say what you will about Jerry Orr (I'm not his biggest fan either), but he clearly recognizes the value that US brings to the airport and the region as a whole. Would he welcome WN? Sure, he would, as would any airport director in the nation. But what you don't see him doing is actively and publicly courting WN, like PIT/Allegheny County was idiotically doing back around 1999/2000 -- I guess it got them exactly what they wanted, maybe...

 

[trvlr64]

Why do you people continue to beat this dead horse? Who the FRAK cares. PIT is no longer a hub and will soon no longer be a FUCUS City..... and YES I spelled it on purpose like that.

PIT is insignificant now so let it alone already.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

PIT is insignificant now so let it alone already.

No - there are some accounts to be settled.

 

[FlyGuyBWI]

No - there are some accounts to be settled.

Really, if this PIT-CLT, "North-South" stuff hasn't been settled yet ...... It's been 20 years! (and, yes, it is a waste of a great airport in PIT, who would have ever thought?!)


For the "Westies" reading this thread .... well, you see how mergers can be ....

 

[AirbusAVE]

Really, if this PIT-CLT, "North-South" stuff hasn't been settled yet ...... It's been 20 years! (and, yes, it is a waste of a great airport in PIT, who would have ever thought?!)

It's been settled. It's just that PIT (and RDU) have an infatuation with the demise of US in Charlotte... You can't compare Charlotte to PIT... They're completely different other than the fact that O&D levels are similar. Why PIT people have wet dreams of US pulling out of Charlotte because of Southwest is beyond me...



Meanwhile, Charlotte is the crown jewel of the US Airways system and is the prize of any merger.... Charlotte's Geographical location is what makes Charlotte a better connecting hub than PIT. Charlotte's also located in the most populated region in the country. And come on, the name "Charlotte" is prettier



When WN does come to Charlotte, I believe their operation will look much like that of Minneapolis or at very most like Pittsburgh's.

 

[ClueByFour]

It's been settled. It's just that PIT (and RDU) have an infatuation with the demise of US in Charlotte... You can't compare Charlotte to PIT... They're completely different other than the fact that O&D levels are similar. Why PIT people have wet dreams of US pulling out of Charlotte because of Southwest is beyond me...

The difference is that CLT has no competition. As a result, the citizens of the CLT MSA pay the third highest airfare in the country. That (and only that) is why US is around.

Meanwhile, Charlotte is the crown jewel of the US Airways system and is the prize of any merger.... Charlotte's Geographical location is what makes Charlotte a better connecting hub than PIT. Charlotte's also located in the most populated region in the country. And come on, the name "Charlotte" is prettier

Charlotte will be dropped like 3rd period French in a merger. AA has no need for it, UA has no need for it, DL has no want of it. Charlotte's population is not significant relative to anywhere else. There is no southeast megalopolis.

When WN does come to Charlotte, I believe their operation will look much like that of Minneapolis or at very most like Pittsburgh's.

As Parker pointed out, that's all it takes.

WN coming to PHL (at 20 flights/day) sent US East into the second bankruptcy. The days of walkup $900 R/T to most of the top 30 markets are over. And that's how US makes CLT profitable.

 

[smoot4208]

Charlotte will be dropped like 3rd period French in a merger. AA has no need for it, UA has no need for it, DL has no want of it. Charlotte's population is not significant relative to anywhere else. There is no southeast megalopolis.


Your hatred towards Charlotte shows you have minimal intelligence in the airline industry. Read just the first paragraph of this article:
http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg15891.html
"United Airlines executives made no secret that one
of the assets they coveted most in their proposed merger with USAirways was
the smaller carrier's profitable Charlotte hub.

When United proposed the largest merger in U.S. aviation history last year,
its officers pictured Charlotte/Douglas International Airport as a future
rival to Delta's Atlanta hub. The airline saw plenty of potential growth by
sending passengers through the Southeastern hub on their way to Asia, Europe
and South America."

 

[FutureUScapt]

The difference is that CLT has no competition. As a result, the citizens of the CLT MSA pay the third highest airfare in the country. That (and only that) is why US is around.

3rd highest? Not even close. Try 40th, though still above the US average.

As Parker pointed out, that's all it takes.

Source please?

I must've missed that conference call where Parker said we would pack up shop in CLT if WN came in with 10-12 flights.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Read just the first paragraph of this article:
http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg15891.html
"United Airlines executives made no secret that one
of the assets they coveted most in their proposed merger with USAirways was
the smaller carrier's profitable Charlotte hub.

That was 2001 (and 8 years can be a lifetime in this industry) and a different "Space Odyssey".

While a SE hub may be appealing to AA, CO, or maybe even still hold some appeal for UA (despite IAD right up the road) which of those would want the rest of the baggage that a merger with US would bring?

3rd highest? Not even close. Try 40th, though still above the US average.

You can't take the average domestic fare paid by O&D passengers without a grain of salt - there are too many variables. For example, CLT is 19th on BTS' list of fare premiums, but 3 of the airports above it have lower average domestic fares yet a larger fare premium and the 5 immediately below it have higher average domestic fares but a smaller fare premium.

For comparable itineraries (distance, destination, connecting/non-stop, etc), CLT has among the highest fares in the country. But that is generally true of cities that have only one airline hub and little low cost competition - just the non-stop premium puts them among the highest fare cities in the country.

Jim

 

[nycbusdriver]

WN coming to PHL (at 20 flights/day) sent US East into the second bankruptcy.

No, the IAM contracts which were not properly dealt with in the first bankruptcy sent US into its second.

 

[700UW]

BS, I was on the NC for the IAM and US went into chapter 11 again because the POR failed, we gave two rounds of concessions in BKI just like everyone else and we met the company's ask in both rounds of concessions.

US' failed business plan accounted for the second chapter 11.

I was there, I saw it all.

 

[PHL]

Meanwhile, Charlotte is the crown jewel of the US Airways system and is the prize of any merger.... Charlotte's Geographical location is what makes Charlotte a better connecting hub than PIT. Charlotte's also located in the most populated region in the country. And come on, the name "Charlotte" is prettier

But is it the crown jewel when most passengers are connecting? I thought, revenue wise, PHL was the crown jewel of the system.

And, where do you get "the most populated region in the country"?? I thought that was the NE corridor followed by MSA areas like Chicago, Houston, LA and SFO. I'd like to see which census data you're referring to.

 

[nycbusdriver]

BS, I was on the NC for the IAM and US went into chapter 11 again because the POR failed, we gave two rounds of concessions in BKI just like everyone else and we met the company's ask in both rounds of concessions.

US' failed business plan accounted for the second chapter 11.

I was there, I saw it all.

All of the pilots on the east property were there, too, and we saw it all. You may think your bluster means something, but we all see it for what it is. Leftover union posturing. We watched it all, too, and we know what caused the second bankruptcy. There may have been other factors, but the IAM contracts were still too pork laden to let go.

 

[700UW]

You are truly ignorant we met the company's ask twice for over $365 million a year in savings during the first bankruptcy, since I saw the financial data and all other important information and you havent stick to things involving pilots and not any of the three IAM CBAs which you were not involved with in any manner in negotiations nor financial data.

Funny I did not see any Pilot in our conference room at CCY, didnt know there was one large enough to hold all the east pilots at CCY and never saw a pilot at CCY as your group ALWAYS caved in first, just like in 1992 when your group forced the concessions on the non-union employees.

 

[mrman]

At the rapture there will still be Cockroaches, Cher and longing for PIT threads