Carty and Remarks!

[TWAnr]

----------------
On 4/11/2003 4:18:46 PM WXGuesser wrote:

mAArky:

It''s in the TWU T/A. This link to the TWU-ATD page:

----------------​

Here is the legalese:

2. The Company agrees that if a petition for bankruptcy is filed with respect to either American Airlines or AMR Corporation, that neither the Company nor any affiliate will file or support any motion pursuant to 11 U.S.C. Sections 1113 seeking rejection or modifications of, or relief or interim relief from, the AMR Restructuring Participation Agreement (a “Motionâ€￾) unless the Company’s financial condition materially deteriorates, subsequent to the date of this agreement, from the financial condition projected in the Company’s business plan provided to the TWU and to the other unions on February 19, 2003, during the negotiations of the AMR Restructuring Participation Agreement, whether because of general economic conditions or otherwise. The Company and its affiliates further agree to actively oppose any such Motion if filed by another party subject to same conditions as outlined above in this paragraph. (emphasis added)

Just how much do you want to bet that the company will argue that the effects of the war in Iraq and SARS caused its financial condition to deteriorate? On second thought, just the need to seek chapter 11 protection will serve as a basis to make such an argument.

 

[Boomer]

WXGuesser,

In an earlier post, did you not state that you were currently LAID OFF. Could your position be influenced, like that of twaokc-retired, by the prospects of your financial future if AA were to declare BK?

 

[air_guy]

----------------
On 4/11/2003 9:03:47 PM FA Mikey wrote:

----------------

On 4/11/2003 8:48:59 PM oldbscaler wrote:


You need to read Holly Hedgemen"s Plane Buesness Banter. She says that any union member who decides to see what is behind door number three(bankruptcy) deserves what he gets. Is there anyone who is sure UAL will ever see the light of day out of bankruptcy? They have a very long way to go.


----------------​

Dont base a decision on her dribble. Lets see UAL got 2.56 billion in concessions from its employees, in negotiations. There is a big difference in getting concessions through mutually agreed cuts or AA''s way of handing you the XXL shaft so you can do it to yourself. It will be obvious in the employee work ethic and attitude.

----------------​

What makes you think those concessions = 2.56.... could be 2.87 or 3.20.... do you think United Unions'' are going to start sabotaging their own agreements as some of ours are doing now the threat is liquidation.... Do you really think they ''negotiated''? I guess the grass always looks greener on the neighbors lawn.....

 

[FA Mikey]

----------------
On 4/11/2003 8:48:59 PM oldbscaler wrote:

You need to read Holly Hedgemen"s Plane Buesness Banter. She says that any union member who decides to see what is behind door number three(bankruptcy) deserves what he gets. Is there anyone who is sure UAL will ever see the light of day out of bankruptcy? They have a very long way to go.

----------------​

Dont base a decision on her dribble. Lets see UAL got 2.56 billion in concessions from its employees, in negotiations. There is a big difference in getting concessions through mutually agreed cuts or AA''s way of handing you the XXL shaft so you can do it to yourself. It will be obvious in the employee work ethic and attitude.

 

[oldbscaler]

You need to read Holly Hedgemen"s Plane Buesness Banter. She says that any union member who decides to see what is behind door number three(bankruptcy) deserves what he gets. Is there anyone who is sure UAL will ever see the light of day out of bankruptcy? They have a very long way to go.

 

[WXGuesser]

----------------
On 4/11/2003 8:17:43 PM Boomer wrote:

WXGuesser,

In an earlier post, did you not state that you were currently LAID OFF. Could your position be influenced, like that of twaokc-retired, by the prospects of your financial future if AA were to declare BK?

----------------​

I''ve never made any secret of that fact. Advertised it in fact. I was informed that I was furloughed on September 26, 2001. Want to know how I remember that? It was four days after my WEDDING. It broke the loving heart of my wife, whom I brought with me to Texas from her beloved Colorado because of this job, which caused massive problems in her family, a fact I am reminded of in spades every time we go back to visit them. I have a degree in a career field that is extremely competitive for a very few job openings.

I am making no bones about my feeling that I believe I will financially and emotionally benefit if AA does not declare bankruptcy and/or survives. However, unlike some others around here, I am trying my best to look beyond my problems and examining the available evidence to see what is the best for the *most* people in this situation. And I believe the option that is best for the most of my union brethren is that they keep their jobs, albeit at a reduced scale of pay. I agree that sucks the great flying green donkey male anatomy of oppression.

If this company goes into bankruptcy, and the number of people get laid off that are likely to get laid off, I believe emotional and financial stress will cause a lot of people to do rather unfortunate things to themselves and people they care about. I have seen and heard what happens to people in bankruptcy. One of the people I consider a mentor and a friend was working for another old major carrier; he closed on a house just before they went tango-uniform. I''ve heard the stories. No thanks. Were I in the position to determine whether to go into bankruptcy or tighten my belt, I would rather tighten my belt than risk losing my job.

Folks, take a look at your situation and the available evidence, and determine what is best for you and the people you care about. Then vote your conscience.

Rant over...

TANSTAAFL

 

[Bob Owens]

Why would they ask to change it. If it passes they already got far more than they would have.
This thing is going down!

 

[RV4]

WXGuesser,

Don''t have any kids with that wife of yours. Once a teenager figures out your fears and your mind of worry, he/she will threaten suicide and run your household.

The last thing you want is a teenager running your household under the threat of suicide.

It amazes me how people cower to fear without realizing how others use that fear to dominate the lives of those that cower. Teenagers are experts at this game because their parents have used simple threats to control them from birth.

At what point do you think you will stand tall for something, without letting your own mind scare you to death about what "might happpen"?

 

[WXGuesser]

----------------
On 4/12/2003 6:49:46 AM RV4 wrote:


WXGuesser,

Don't have any kids with that wife of yours. Once a teenager figures out your fears and your mind of worry, he/she will threaten suicide and run your household.

The last thing you want is a teenager running your household under the threat of suicide.

It amazes me how people cower to fear without realizing how others use that fear to dominate the lives of those that cower. Teenagers are experts at this game because their parents have used simple threats to control them from birth.

At what point do you think you will stand tall for something, without letting your own mind scare you to death about what "might happpen"?

----------------​

No, no kids of our own yet, but my wife already knows plenty about how to raise kids; from the time she was a teenager she raised her sister's kids. They have turned out pretty good,none of them have ever threatened to kill themselves, and two of them are now teenagers. I would be happy to have her give you some advice on parenting if you need it.

I'll gladly stand up and fight if there is even a slim chance we might win.

In this fight, there can be no winners. Employees will get their pay and benefits cut either way. It's either a choice between the devil we know (the current T/A) or the devil we don't (Chapter 11).

It's really not my call. Each employee has to make it for him or her self. I just hope that if this does get voted down, that you and Buck and NH/BB and Bob Owens are right and it will be better deals all around in Chapter 11.

TANSTAAFL