Can we talk service?

[vantheman63]

Understood, but I still don't understand how CO is driving significantly more revenue in F (and Y, from what I hear) due to their better product, but are still not able to charge significantly higher fares than their competitors in both cabins? In other words, shouldn't they be able to charge much higher fares on routes they compete on, and turn a significant profit?

I don't know your definition of "significant," but I know what mine is...and I know CO gets more money from me then if I were flying US, for 110% sure.

Here's an example....I have to do a VERY, VERY quick trip from SFO to PVD...in fact, both my wife and I do. At the time, I didn't even price US....because I know I'll be flying in F and, while I don't want to poke sticks in the eyes of US peeps....I would just never buy an F ticket on US.

The dates are leaving SFO July 22 and returning July 24.

Now....I bought these 2 weeks ago...and even then, a month out, I could not get what I wanted on CO...the 11:20 am departure they have to EWR from SFO was already sold out in F....so I got stuck paying big bucks for the red-eye...but I did it. Here's how it fared out:

Actual Airfare: $1,188.84
Taxes & Fees: $131.56
TOTAL PRICE: $1,320.40.....R/T X 2 tickets, total spend of $2,640.80, completely refundable.

Lets compare this to US....

NON-REFUNDABLE
Actual Airfare: $532.00
Taxes & Fees: $42.40
TOTAL PRICE: $574.40...R/T X 2 tickets, would have been a total spend of $1,148.80, non-refundable.

REFUNDABLE ON US
Actual Airfare: $778.80
Taxes & Fees: $39.40
TOTAL PRICE: $817.40....R/T X 2 tickets, would have been a total spend of $1,634.80

US IN "FIRST" CLASS
Actual Airfare: $1,278.00
Taxes & Fees: $40.90
TOTAL PRICE: $1,318.90....R/T X2 tickets, would have been a total spend of $2,637.80

Now...in a bajillion years, and nothing personal, but I'm not laying out money for F on US Airways...especially when for the same price I can have First on CO.

So, CO's cabin generates more...by a fair amount...~$750 more than US on a non-refundable ticket...~$500 more than US on a refundable ticket.

And again....a month out...I couldn't friggin BUY a damned ticket in F on CO on July 22 out of SFO until the red-eye.

That's what I mean by saying their product gets people like me paying more....I could have paid less and flown US...but their F cabin is worth the money....worth the stretch.

Make sense?

 

[US1YFARE]

I had an opportunity to fly Delta in First Class from CLT to PHX, via ATL a little over a month ago. On the late evening 757 departure from ATL to PHX the Delta snack basket was offered and it had the EXACT same contents that ours had! Sun Chips, Biscoff, Quaker Oatmeal Granola bars, and a Delta snack mix.

Of course, I passed on the basket. Even when I see Sun Chips on the snack aisle of the grocery store I want to hurl.

Have they changed their selection recently? This wasn't that long ago.

That being said, I did LOVE the AVOD in First Class on their 757. It kept me occupied and made the flight from Atlanta to Phoenix just fly by!

Their AVOD is decent....well, outstanding if you compare it to US domestic.

As for the snack basket, there is always fruit in the basket--apples, bananas, or I've even had oranges. They have twix candy bars and bagel chips. Yes, the stupid biscoff is in there. Then again, unlike US, when DL and NW merged, they took some of the better things from NW and use them at the new DL. HP took the US snack basket and made it suck.

 

[US1YFARE]

INow...in a bajillion years, and nothing personal, but I'm not laying out money for F on US Airways...especially when for the same price I can have First on CO.

Especially on a transcon. I'll drive to EWR. CO's transcon service is outstanding. I do think AA has good service as well. I love CO, but if AA flew more up and down the East coast from PHL or easy connection, I'd probably fly them. US is just horrible when it comes to premium travel.

 

[NAPAUS]

Especially on a transcon. I'll drive to EWR. CO's transcon service is outstanding. I do think AA has good service as well. I love CO, but if AA flew more up and down the East coast from PHL or easy connection, I'd probably fly them. US is just horrible when it comes to premium travel.

Well somebody finally put it out there - plain and simple. US is horrible for ANY premium product, as well as coach. Everybody keeps quoting fares, and schedules ...blah blah blah. Bottom line Tempe reduced US to a lackluster, bottom of the barrel airline. UPGRADE the damn products, charge the extra amount and return US to what it was when Wolf was running the airline. If not drop F/C and turn the airplane into a ultra roomy coach, w/ a premium cabin upfront like the Eureopean carriers do intra- europe. If not US will continue to be on this downward spiral that no one can save them from.
Amen, Happy 4th!

 

[vantheman63]

See, that makes me wonder: why does CO have to launch these promotions if everyone is purchasing F, and the majority of US' FF's are now at CO? Why aren't people retaining their status at CO without promotions? I can understand US having these DEQM programs, etc, but CO?

I don't think "everyone is purchasing F." If "everyone was purchasing F" then instead of 20 or 24 seats in F on their aircraft, they'd increase to 50 or 60.

And that's not the point...the point is, CO uses its F cabin to lure more dollars from the traveling public. US obviously uses their F cabin to reward frequent travelers. Fly 30 segments or 25,000 miles of bargain basement (& service) fares, get "Silver Preferred" and you are now eligible for "unlimited, complimentary upgrades."

On CO, "Silver Elite" gets you the right to buy "B-Up and Y-Up" fares...and some extra miles...thats about it. Sure, you are eligible for "unlimited complimentary upgrades" as a CO "Silver Elite," but if Platinums aren't scoring them, then lemme tell ya who else isn't scoring them. LOL

If you really want to see what I'm speaking of, in action, it's actually simple to verify. Go to Continental.com and then check "flight status." Check out the status of a flight from, say, EWR-SFO or LAX...and then click "Upgrade Standy List" to look at the stats. It's not hard to see how many are actually paying full F...and the "upgrades" are, for the most part, the people who bought B-Ups and Y-Ups. "Elite" Upgrades, from my experience, are rarely cleared ahead...those are typically "day of the show" upgrades.

For the record, I would stick with CO whether I'm finished qualifying for Platinum or not. However, because the product is not always available to purchase, having a back up, in this case, DL, is good. I will say, I haven't been a fan of DL and certainly not NW over the years...but they are upgrading, in my opinion, the product. And if you want to see how a merger should be done...my goodness, go riding on DL or a Northwelta flight...it won't resemble ANYTHING close to the insanity we've seen in the US/HP "merger."

Ok, you're saying the F cabin can generate some serious revenue if done correctly, but do you think that CO is spending too much on the product? It just sounds to me like CO should be so wildly profitable with most of the F seats purchased, with its much better Y product, AVOD, food, etc...? Also, are they able to charge a significant fare premium in Y over, say, US or WN where they compete?

Well, I have no idea if they can "charge a significant fare premium in Y" or not. I do know their yields, as reported on their quarterly earnings, are amongst the highest in the industry. And frankly, the last stats I saw, WN beat US in yields....and has lower costs...

 

[Travelpro72]

We can split hairs and decipher the intricacies of the US product vs. other airlines when bottom line it blows. The US product is substandard at best. They won't upgrade a thing yet continue to charge what their competitors charge. It's no secret. And again it goes back to Continental. CO along with AA, UA and NW/DL have a MUCH better product than US....Period. I also don't believe that ALL of the former VFF's from US have ran to CO. I would imagine they are spread out among the other legacy carriers and some WN thrown in there. With the decrease in business travel everyone's VFF numbers are down. All in all we are talking about an inflight product which at US simply BLOWS.

 

[Singleflyer]

I have gone to NW/DL and already made Pltm for next year.

While I like CO, It just does not work for where I travel most of the time.

 

[Harry Callahan]

With the decrease in business travel everyone's VFF numbers are down. All in all we are talking about an inflight product which at US simply BLOWS.

No doubt the US product blows when compared with every one else & as long as dumb & dumber run this joke US will continue to loose more of the VFF's than other carriers.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Talking service here is like going to McDonald's website and discussing gourmet eating.

 

[DesertFA66]

What I got from what he said was that CO seems to have more people than US who actually purchase their first class seats. US charges just about the same give or take a few dollars yet people are not willing to pay for the "product" therefore giving more FF's the ability to upgrade at US vs. CO. These people must be paying for their first class seats on CO for a reason.

Why don't you start by just giving your customer some attention, smiles, good energy. They don't generally care about the food, they just want to be treated well.

The attention some FA's give in any part of the cabin is horrible. Start there and then complain about the food.

 

[Travelpro72]

I agree 100%. A smile only goes so far though when your dealing with US. As many wacky or mean flight attendants flying around out there there are more who are pleasant. I for one LOVE my job but have issues with what comes with it. It's a love/hate relationship. That said, with what is offered to our customers I could smile until my face cracked but it only goes so far. Many out there on the line woule love to have a product to be proud of and do what we are there to do while "inflight" and SERVE.

 

[Itestwell]

We can split hairs and decipher the intricacies of the US product vs. other airlines when bottom line it blows. The US product is substandard at best. They won't upgrade a thing yet continue to charge what their competitors charge. It's no secret. And again it goes back to Continental. CO along with AA, UA and NW/DL have a MUCH better product than US....Period. I also don't believe that ALL of the former VFF's from US have ran to CO. I would imagine they are spread out among the other legacy carriers and some WN thrown in there. With the decrease in business travel everyone's VFF numbers are down. All in all we are talking about an inflight product which at US simply BLOWS.

Pretty much every single one of your posts is about how much US "blows", and I really am not sure why, because almost nobody is disputing that on here, including me. What I am asking, is since the other airlines products (Y & F) are far superior, why are they not able to charge MUCH more than US, and thus be profitable? Shouldn't USAir be the only airline losing significant $$$, with its largely inferior product???

 

[Travelpro72]

Well what I seem to gather is that other airlines have FF's willing to "PAY" for the first class product more so than US. It isn't so much that other airlines NEED to charge more for their first class seats. They have more paying per cabin it seems. Even on a US transcon as a percentage I wonder how many FF's actually "pay" the fare to sit there or did they endure the US service time and again to get the as many call it "free" seat up front? So I go back to what I said before that, "The US inflight product blows and people are not willing to pay for it".

 

[vantheman63]

Pretty much every single one of your posts is about how much US "blows", and I really am not sure why, because almost nobody is disputing that on here, including me. What I am asking, is since the other airlines products (Y & F) are far superior, why are they not able to charge MUCH more than US, and thus be profitable? Shouldn't USAir be the only airline losing significant $$$, with its largely inferior product???

With all do respect...I actually think you are not looking at this correctly, from an accounting point of view.

First of all, it's US that is trying to charge what the others are...not that the others aren't charging "MUCH more than US."

It's VERY simple...and even by your own admission, here's the deal: You are shopping for F fares...Continental is charging $650 each way from PVD-SFO, US is charging the same thing.

Which airline and product are you buying?

It's not that CO isn't charging significantly more...they ARE as I tried to demonstrate earlier on this thread.

Said another way...if CO decided to raise the fare $100 tomorrow...US would follow.

Secondly, when last I saw quarterly reports, I think FL was the only profitable carrier...so the real question is, relative to each other, "who's losing less?" Or, stated another way, "who has better yields?"

Heck I posted this too....I spend more per mile on WN than any of the legacies...and they have the lowest cost structure. What does that say?

 

[vantheman63]

Well what I seem to gather is that other airlines have FF's willing to "PAY" for the first class product more so than US.

Its EASY to verify on Continental.com.

Had a friend I knew was flying on CO 65, EWR - LAX on Sunday....15 of the 16 seats were sold at an F price.

15 of 16!