Breaking RJ News

[autofixer]

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On 1/19/2003 10:24:36 AM ISN wrote:

Think about it, 6 years from now ALPA announces a strike date. Company says go ahead make my day, we will keep the doors open using contract carriers! RJ’s, 90 seaters.
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[/blockquote]Six years from now the small jets will be well on their way to the ash heap of history. Their high cost will kill them--after they are used for their intended purpose of destroying labor at the airlines.

I contend that if small jets were so great, why is Southwest avoiding like the plague or like they do hubbing? Small jets will be just another in a thousand mile long line of airline management ineptness.

When the history books are written in a hundred years, the likes of Crandall, Wolf, and yes, Dave, will be listed right up their with the robber barons of the 19th century. My goodness, one only needs to go to the Biltmore House in Ashville, NC, to realize why the railroads went broke. The railroads could not see the need to adapt to the competion that was arising from a new technology--the automobile. The airlines can not see the need to adapt to a new technology that is arising--electronic conferencing and communication. The soapbox is now available.

 

[airjackson]

Wow, the posts here have reached the level of third grade recess behavior. While physical threats are a childish retort in an anonymous forum such as this, the merciless denigration of the contract carriers, who for years have worked hard to make U a succesful airline,are un-called for. CHQ, TSA, MESA and the other contract pilots do the same job every one of you do. I suspect you would label the Southwest pilots bottom feeders because they work for payscales less than most mainline groups, and work for a company which has steadily eaten away at the mainline-pilots business. Dorkdriver, exagony and the like rape the image of a professional pilot. Thankfully, I know that they represent only a slim, vile minority of pilots in our industry.

Trying times usually bring out the best in a true professional. The poseurs are usually weeded out in indoc.

 

[ONTHESTREET]

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On 1/19/2003 4:32:05 PM airjackson wrote:

I suspect you would label the Southwest pilots bottom feeders because they work for payscales less than most mainline groups


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not a chance.. Southwest is one of the best paid airlines out there now!!

U is already paid much less, UA is close, AA and DAL are not far behind.

You do have to admit that the willingness of the regional pilots to fly the RJ's so cheap is a very big factor in their popularity with CEO's.

The regionals will no longer be a stepping stone, they will become career airlines.......at 1/3 the pay.

 

[diogenes]

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On 1/19/2003 11:53:57 AM autofixer wrote:

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On 1/19/2003 10:24:36 AM ISN wrote:

Think about it, 6 years from now ALPA announces a strike date. Company says go ahead make my day, we will keep the doors open using contract carriers! RJ’s, 90 seaters.
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[/blockquote]Six years from now the small jets will be well on their way to the ash heap of history. Their high cost will kill them--after they are used for their intended purpose of destroying labor at the airlines.

I contend that if small jets were so great, why is Southwest avoiding like the plague or like they do hubbing? Small jets will be just another in a thousand mile long line of airline management ineptness.

When the history books are written in a hundred years, the likes of Crandall, Wolf, and yes, Dave, will be listed right up their with the robber barons of the 19th century. My goodness, one only needs to go to the Biltmore House in Ashville, NC, to realize why the railroads went broke. The railroads could not see the need to adapt to the competion that was arising from a new technology--the automobile. The airlines can not see the need to adapt to a new technology that is arising--electronic conferencing and communication. The soapbox is now available.

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Fixer,

You are absolutely correct.

Floating about in the 'PlaneBusiness' archives is Siegel's take on RJ's, circa 1999. "These aircraft (EMB 145's) are 'scopebusters'...." Management knows full well RJ CASM's are higher than mainline jets, which is why they want to contract the RJ flying out - so they can drop them like a hot horse shoe, after they have served the purpose of union busting.

More to the point, if the legacy carriers could have forced lower labor costs onto their unions without the RJ's, you would not see rush to bring RJ's onto the property.

When your product becomes a commodity, controlling costs is king, which is why WN avoids RJ's. This is also why WN has not made any competitive response to U's BK, as have DL, AA and NW. WN is killing us as it is. After, and if U emerges from BK, and makes any significant progress, I expect WN to start turning up the heat.

I'm not saying no RJ's at all - they have their place. PI proved that with the F28's. But in the numbers U is talking, it's "scopebusting."

 

[BoredToDeath]

PineyBob,

Cute response to say the least, the very least, and yes I am P.O.ed. A contract carrier pilot had the nerve to threatin one of my WO brothers. That makes me sick to my stomach, and so I rightfully responded.

As far as your comment about how to better spend my time, well any amout of time I spend spreading the word that the OUTSOURCING of US AIRWAYS GROUP FLYING IS A DISGUSTING VIRUS THAT NEEDS TO END, sounds like time well spent.

Unless your one of the GROUP employees that is looking forward to losing your job to these Contract Companies.

And I would'nt look forward to flying with you either, especailly if you really use the word "Jeepers" when you talk.

Airjackson,

If you think in any way, shape, or form that my thoughts are a small minority of the pilot group, your living with blinders on. And don't even bring up maturity, it was one of your contract buddies that brought up how much of a tough guy he was.

Let me make it simple for you. The contract carriers are a DIRRECT THREAT to my job and the jobs of over 1700 furloughed Mainline and WO Pilots, FAs, Mechs., and everyone else directly involved with US AIRWAYS GROUP. The fact that all these people can be on the street while Mgt. continues to outsource is disgusting. Now don't get me wrong, your companies are not entirely at fault. But I won't go into the past, just deal with the now, and right now the group has thousands of people on the street while the contract carriers are growning. I'd say those alone are some pretty good reasons for anger.

AS for your closing comment, if being passionnet(sp) about my company and wanting the best for all Mainline and WO employees is being a poseur, then so be it.

 

[BoredToDeath]

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On 1/21/2003 1216 AM PineyBob wrote:

BoredToDeath,
It wasn't meant to be cute! the first part yes! The second part not even a little funny.

The contract carriers are not to blame here. They are seizing an opportunity brought on by many things that can be summed up as the sea change that is taking place in the airline industry. By blaming the contract carriers you are in effect shooting the messenger! Because their rise in importance is a direct result of the economic change taking place and that does not bode well for you.

Change can really suck trust me I understand that. But realistically you are talking about going from the top 1% of gross family income all the way down to the top 2% and you have others at US with families large enough to qualify for food stamps when the new cuts are implemented so don't expect a lot of weeping from some folks on your behalf.

As to your threats and behavior on line, I seriously hope I never fly with you. Your conduct was/is out of control with verbal threats. What would you do if you found out I was on your plane? come out of the cockpit and confront me?

Normally, given the fact that I used to be a bouncer at a biker bar in the very late 70's someone like you wouldn't bother me. But with all of the security around airlines you could assualt me and have me arrested and put in jail for a long time and no one would ever know you started the whole thing! Personally I think you have an alligotor mouth with a hummingbird ###, but I can't afford the legal fees from a confrontation with an out of control, unstable pilot, which is what you are. Your words in previous posts sir convict you not mine!
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[/blockquote]

PineyBob,

Is age catching up with you? In my original post please show me where I threatened anyone. The worst that I did was call him a little B^T&H, cause thats exactly the way he sounded. And in my last post you'll notice that I only place partial blame on the contract carriers and the rest on Mgt.

I'm not looking for sympathy from anyone, only to try and voice my desire for the contracting of US Airways group flying to be put to an end before it gets anyworse, and from the way things are going its gonna get worse, but does that mean that I still can't try? I love this company and my job and now our jobs are at risk, should I just sit back watch or at least fight for whats right!

How am I some physco pilot for wanting to see Mainline and WO'd employees the only ones doing the work around here? Surly I can't be the only one that wants that. Its sad that you can take my thoughts and make it sound like I threatened someone. I did insult someone, but I never threatened them. My conduct and thoughts are emotional but in no way threating.

I've been a professional pilot for over 10years,( a baby compaired to most), but still a professional, and I have never acted the way you suggested I would in a aircraft. Thats just ridiculious.(sp)

I'll say goodnight now Bob and hopefully someday you can see my side for whats its worth. I'm just a WO'd pilot that wants to see a better U. Not a better U and 10 other contract carriers with it.


I may have made some spelling mistakes please dissregaurd them, its late and like the name says I'm Bored.