Bob Crandall: How I'd Save The Industry

[KCFlyer]

Uncle Bob needs to go back to his rocking chair and leave the aviation industry to people who aren't outdated by more than a decade.

Here's the thing...Crandall had the vision back in the early 1990's of a plan that would have averted a lot of the problems we see today - his 'value pricing' idea. Had that been allowed to be implemented, I believe that every airline would have seen a dramatic increase in "full fare" tickets being sold. I guess Crandall is "so 90's" in that he didn't think to highly of the "bankruptcy method" of airline operations. And in looking back - did he treat labor any WORSE than they are being treated today?

 

[The Goose]

Here's the thing...Crandall had the vision back in the early 1990's of a plan that would have averted a lot of the problems we see today - his 'value pricing' idea. Had that been allowed to be implemented, I believe that every airline would have seen a dramatic increase in "full fare" tickets being sold. I guess Crandall is "so 90's" in that he didn't think to highly of the "bankruptcy method" of airline operations. And in looking back - did he treat labor any WORSE than they are being treated today?

You're right - the value pricing may have helped the situation we're in today, although not eliminated it.

As for his treatment of labor - Crandall was honest to the point of brutality, but I'd prefer that over the sneaky and greedy collection of professional liars we have now.

I've gathered over the years since he left that the salaried management personnel were deathly afraid of him. Rightfully so; Bob was always trying to figure a way to get rid of them as he understood (as almost all hourly people do) that management is non-productive and is only a drain on resources - they do nothing to keep an aircraft flying, rather, they're an impediment to that aircraft flying, playing their myriad of games in order to maintain their egos and empires and it's an excellent place for the incompetent to hide and await retirement. Since Bob's departure, these empires (that were previously kept in check) have flourished and real productivity has hit the floor even though the miles of creatively altered documentation say otherwise.

 

[The Goose]

Dave, what's funny about your assumptions there is there are probably less than 50 consultants on the property, if that. They'd be hard pressed to be doing the work of the 4000 other people at HDQ.

Even 50 consultants being paid to provide "leadship" when one supposed CEO should be capable of providing same are 50 too damned many! The sole function of these bastards is to teach the present management how to lie and get away with it.

I've got a better idea - hire a group of replacement management from India and get rid of Arpey and his stooges. They would, without a doubt, work for much less and might make better decisions than what we have now.

The worst that could happen would be forbidding the cafeterias to sell hamburgers (and that may be a good thing).

 

[eolesen]

Goose, the only people afraid of Bob were people who weren't smart enough to have their ducks in a row.

If you could answer his questions which usually approached an issue from 360 degrees, there was no reason to fear him. If anything, it made us be better managers knowing we had to anticipate all the different directions he could head.

Managers who faced him without knowing their facts got shredded, but would live to see another day. Those who tried to cover things up got eaten alive.

How do you know? I thought you didnt work at AA anymore?

You really think things change that much over two years?

What's funny about your postings (including) all alias' is that you claim to not be associated with AA anymore, yet you are clearly here to defend the worthless management policies that are sinking this airline, and apparently have an agenda to not let one negative comment about the management team go by without some form of AA management slanted answer.

No, Dave. I just won't let obvious mistruths go unquestioned.

Aliases? Please. I used one rather thinly disguised screen name when I came here, which complied to the letter with a directive given to me after I'd agreed let -your- debate with the TWU be conducted on Plane Business. As soon as I left AA, I went back to using my name (which I'd also used on PBBB).

How 'bout you, Dave? You've been posting online for almost eight years as RV4, TWU-I, and a few other pseudo aliases.

What are you so afraid of?

I get flash backs when reading your current USAviation postings of the Plane Business days just before the proxy authorization was shut off to the work force once the bulletin board had been outed for the real reason we were all allowed access on company property to begin with. Maybe your employment status has changed but your job function has not changed one bit in my opinion.

Ah, resorting to your old "bash the rebutter not the rebuttal" tactics.... Believe what you want, Dave.

I have to go close the windowshades, put on the tin-foil hat, and turn off the computer now.... The black-ops guys from HDQ could show up at any minute...

 

[Mitchb]

All these years after the government deregulated the airline industry where the airline employees were the bearers of low cost travel to the public someone with some sense concludes this well intentioned, but poorly conceived plan, is a failure. Besides low cost air fares, what has deregulation meant to the industry? For the most part, business executives now run the airlines - specifically, AA. There is no one in AA currently who has any background in this business. Arpey and his cronies take credit and plenty of cash when things are good, but do not have a clue as to what to do now that things are tuff. OK, OK, they'll have lay offs and 'work' with the union to ram another s$#t contract down the throats off it's members. But they haven't a clue.

The business of moving people in many areas of this country is a government provided or subsidized service. And the same in many other countries. I guess it will take a complete meltdown for the so-called leaders in this country to realize we need a similar approach. Regardless, after the hard lessons are learned, Arpey and his cronies will still get their money. Its the American, err, AA way.

Mitch

 

[Bob Owens]

All these years after the government deregulated the airline industry where the airline employees were the bearers of low cost travel to the public someone with some sense concludes this well intentioned, but poorly conceived plan, is a failure. Besides low cost air fares, what has deregulation meant to the industry? For the most part, business executives now run the airlines - specifically, AA. There is no one in AA currently who has any background in this business. Arpey and his cronies take credit and plenty of cash when things are good, but do not have a clue as to what to do now that things are tuff. OK, OK, they'll have lay offs and 'work' with the union to ram another s$#t contract down the throats off it's members. But they haven't a clue.

The business of moving people in many areas of this country is a government provided or subsidized service. And the same in many other countries. I guess it will take a complete meltdown for the so-called leaders in this country to realize we need a similar approach. Regardless, after the hard lessons are learned, Arpey and his cronies will still get their money. Its the American, err, AA way.

Mitch

So in other words concessions are fruitless for the workers, all it does is allow the executives to funnel more money into their pockets before the inevitable meltdown.

I like to compare this industry to the NYMTA, of which you may be familiar, from a workers point of view we need to set ourselves up the same way-get the whole system into one union. I know you're not a fan of the union but the fact is that workers in New York did better once they got unionized under Quill instead of being split up inro several different unions all in a race to the bottom(Hall and his handpicked successor undid a lot of what Quill accomplished).