Bankrupt?????????????????

I thought that Mr. Carty should have resigned yesterday, there is no way that any member of the AA team can trust him or our board members. I know for a fact that in the dept. I work, which is part of management(right now I and Im sure for many of us, don/t even like to be associated with management) think this would be the best thing for our company.

I realize that it is very important to retain a management team, but the way the whole thing was handled was such a sham. I agree that upper upper management should have some sort of perks, but to hide it in such a way, really shows inconsideration toward employees.

I am a true believer that the if the unions decide to revote there will be a lot of resentment votes. Which will result in a NO vote from at least the flight attendants. I believe out of all the unions, the APA has the brains. They probably have the most education of any unionized work group within AA.
They are very business oriented and can see what must be done.

will talk later

 

[L1011Ret]

Carty is unlikely to resign. However, the New York Times takes a shot directly at him in today''s business section suggesting his apology was less than genuine. Carty will have a hard time regaining the trust of the employees. If the trust of employees is that important to AA, then it is up to the BOD of AA to make a change.

 

[JFK777]

Putting AA into BK just to get "even" with Carty is a heavy price to pay. If the union workers vote against the give backs they are only loosing control over their futures to a Judge. The ones paying the price will be the employees not the CEO, Carty can afford to live well after working at AA for 20 years. A BK Judge may be a different "DEVIL" then Carty but many workers will lose their jobs and work for less. Just to "shaft" Carty by voting "NO", is a vote AGAINST AA.

 

[FA Mikey]

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On 4/22/2003 11:28:49 AM A77IGW wrote:

I agree with that comment. You sound like an very intelligent person. AA management should be proud to have you. In the management dept I work in we need a few more like you

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Brilliant, just what AA needs more people in management positions that have a predetermined hatred of one or all of its work groups. We are in this position because AA wasn''t willing to do a mutually beneficial agreement. If they had the TA would be already set in stone.

 

I agree with that comment. You sound like an very intelligent person. AA management should be proud to have you. In the management dept I work in we need a few more like you

 

[FA Mikey]

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On 4/22/2003 12:13:09 PM JFK777 wrote:

Putting AA into BK just to get "even" with Carty is a heavy price to pay. If the union workers vote against the give backs they are only loosing control over their futures to a Judge. The ones paying the price will be the employees not the CEO, Carty can afford to live well after working at AA for 20 years. A BK Judge may be a different "DEVIL" then Carty but many workers will lose their jobs and work for less. Just to "shaft" Carty by voting "NO", is a vote AGAINST AA.

----------------​

BK is not my choice. I dont want to go there. But AA seems determined to. They didn''t negotiate deals with the unions who were all willing to accept concessions. Many workers are currently losing there jobs, all employees are losing pay and work rules. A NO vote may actually be a vote to save AA from the very people who are not smart enough to make it prosper. Its sad that a company could have all its work groups come in and agree to concessions and then do nothing more than try to put the screws to them. Hide basic facts and certain compensations.

 

hey, thanks a lot I really appreciate that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 4/22/2003 12:18:15 PM FA Mikey wrote:

Brilliant, just what AA needs more people in management positions that have a predetermined hatred of one or all of its work groups.
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Hello pot, meet kettle. Even in the good times, most of the labor groups have hated management. Look at the "potential saviour" - Bob Crandall....I love the way y''all just LOVED him.

 

[767jetz]

For those of you who are saying, 'Don't revote; putting AA into CH11 is no way to get back at Carty,'...

Did anyone ever think that CH11 is the plan of management anyway? Don't blame the em[ployees who only want a fair vote. These concession packages being rammed down your throat are just a way to delay the inevitable CH11 filing, allowing management time to line their pockets a bit more and cover their butts?

At UA we really believed management didn't want to file CH11, so we got behind the concessions. Now that we are here, most of us believe that CH11 was the game plan all along.

Carty knows that there is no way he can get his costs in line with his biggest competitors without the help of the courts. And I'm not just talking about employees, but vendors and lessors too.

Don't kid yourselves. See the SERP for what it is. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

I agree with that statement FA Mikey but a no vote is not the answer. We all need to go along with the concessions and form some type of group to demand for Cartys resignation. No is not the answer it will only push us to BK hurt more employees and prove Carty right. He said you vote no we will go BK and if you do you will prove him right. Please do not make this Union bs turn into the same Union tactics at other failed airlines.....we all need eachother to take a stand and demand for cartys resignation

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 4/22/2003 111 PM 767jetz wrote:

For those of you who are saying, 'Don't revote; putting AA into CH11 is no way to get back at Carty,'...

Did anyone ever think that CH11 is the plan of management anyway. And these concession packages being rammed down your throat are just a way to delay the inevitable CH11 filing, allowing management time to line their pockets a bit more and cover their butts?

At UA we really believed management didn't want to file CH11, so we got behind the concessions. Now that we are here, most of us believe that CH11 was the game plan all along.

Carty knows that there is no way he can get his costs in line with his biggest competitors without the help of the courts. And I'm not just talking about employees, but vendors and lessors too.

Don't kid yourselves. See the SERP for what it is. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

----------------​

In other words...let the AA folks be the guinea pigs for "what might have been". If they get a better deal from the bankruptcy court than you folks at UAL and U, then you can reignite your hatred for you own managment. If they get screwed over royally...you can heave a big sigh of relief that things really could have been worse.

 

[AAStew]

I do not think most employees including union members WANT to go into bankruptcy. If we had had good faith negotiations in the first place none of this would be occuring today.(Revotes)
As for you APfah8er, the pilots are pretty unified in this because they have the most to lose. All of our pilots when they were hired were guaranteed they would have at least a million dollars in their pension when they retired. I would not want to lose that either.
We the the f/a's are the necessary evil that this company must endure. At least that is the way they treat us. My goodness if you are mgmt, it is no wonder there is such poor relations between labor and mgmt.

 

[767jetz]

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On 4/22/2003 1:18:50 PM KCFlyer wrote:


In other words...let the AA folks be the guinea pigs for "what might have been".  If they get a better deal from the bankruptcy court than you folks at UAL and U, then you can reignite your hatred for you own managment. If they get screwed over royally...you can heave a big sigh of relief that things really could have been worse. 

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Uhhhhh, NO! Those are your words not mine, KCFlyer. Being the 4th or 5th airline to go CH11 is not what I would call being a guinea pig.

In fact, I would rather AA not go CH11. If they take less cuts outside of CH11, I will have a better shot at a bigger raise in 6 years. I also think UA would have a cost advantage over AA if they stay out of CH11.

Your read on hatred for management is way off also. Things are relatively peacful at UA right now. We are running an awesome operation, we are #1 in ontime performance for 2002 and 2003, we are well on track for meeting the DIP hurdles by a good margin, and as much as the cuts hurt, a majority of employees have accepted the pain and have moved forward. Our agreements have passed or will pass by large margins.

 

[ZMAN777]

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On 4/22/2003 12:13:09 PM JFK777 wrote:

Putting AA into BK just to get "even" with Carty is a heavy price to pay. If the union workers vote against the give backs they are only loosing control over their futures to a Judge. The ones paying the price will be the employees not the CEO, Carty can afford to live well after working at AA for 20 years. A BK Judge may be a different "DEVIL" then Carty but many workers will lose their jobs and work for less. Just to "shaft" Carty by voting "NO", is a vote AGAINST AA.

----------------​

I''m not convinced that Carty needs or even intends to go to BK if any of the groups vote it down. I think more likely that events have caused him to blink at the worst possible time in a high stake game of poker! That being said, I believe the unions will have some, not huge, ability to gain token changes to their agreements. Perhaps making them 4 years vs 6 year deals, etc.

This isn''t a time to be greedy and risk actually driving AMR to BK but if Carty was willing to hide this bit of information I''m willing to bet he''s better able to stave off BK in the short term than he was saying. Afterall, we''re a week past his deadline and still no trip to the BK judge. His bluff has been called and he should be made to pay for his lies and deceit. The war is over, bookings across the Atlantic have made a fairly sizeable rebound since then, AMR will be getting hundreds of millions of dollars from Uncle Sam very shortly. And he''s gonna file for BK? YGBSM! No way!

I don''t think fear and intimidation should keep anyone from thinking clearly on this matter. I think right now the unions have Carty by the short hairs for small (low cost to AMR) but meaningful changes to their tentative agreements.

Cheers,
Z

 

[4Uandme]

I have for weeks just read comments on this board without actually posting, but I feel compelled to do so today.

I am also very hurt and upset about what Carty is taking blame for, but least not forget he is the fall guy here!! There has to be a lamb and he is the one for now.

If there is another vote I will look at my fellow co workers before I vote no because it will be them who has to tell there husbands, wifes, children and bill collectors that "Sorry I lost my job b/c the Company is now in BK" I will not be voting "no" because I care about my co-workers jobs. Sure I am not happy and sure we look to others to lead our directions, but when it comes down to it. Carty will walk away (either with AA or not) with Millions; All of the Union leaders make three times our salaries; and Managment will be hired back or never get layed off.

I just ask that everyone sit back for a moment and do not misplace your anger and frustration. Now I know that there are some people posting who are going to lose their jobs whether we are or are not in BK and are on this board stiring trouble...Shame on you too!! That is not the right thing to do either. If someone had the power to save your job, wouldn''t you have rather rallied for the right??

My Grandmother told me if you do not have anything nice to say, do not say anything at all. I know we all want to be heard, otherwise none of us would be posting, but my God...Please think before you speak on this message board!!