BA Cutting managers,,, Take Heed AA

[Hopeful]

http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/12/british-a...artner=yahootix





AA should take a lesson from BA, instead they keep swelling the ranks of managers...
At JFK, they just hired 3 more maintenance managers, level 5's. You could not have found 3 people with less aircraft maintenance experience if they took an ad out in the paper.

3 more managers at $75k a year to sit behind a computer and email the manger of what a good job theyre doing and second guess experienced mechanics who have more time in this business than they do in the crapper.

wAAy to go AA!
What a mangement team AA has!http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/12/british-airways-redundancies-markets-equity-cx_po_0912markets08.html?partner=yahootix

 

[eolesen]

The cuts in the Forbes article mention BA cutting 10% of their management & admin staff.

The cuts AA is halfway thru implementing with management & admin will most likely exceed 10%. You might not see it in your corner of the universe, but I'm hearing cuts of 15% of the budgeted headcount. Some of that will be VBRs. The rest are layoff without recall.

Go ahead and call it a good start, but also remember those are real people earning not too much more than the topped out AMT or CC, and they, too have bills to pay and mouths to feed.

 

[Hopeful]

The cuts in the Forbes article mention BA cutting 10% of their management & admin staff.

The cuts AA is halfway thru implementing with management & admin will most likely exceed 10%. You might not see it in your corner of the universe, but I'm hearing cuts of 15% of the budgeted headcount. Some of that will be VBRs. The rest are layoff without recall.

Go ahead and call it a good start, but also remember those are real people earning not too much more than the topped out AMT or CC, and they, too have bills to pay and mouths to feed.

Everyone has bills to pay and mouths to feed. so do the 1300 mechanics AA is looking to get rid of. Not all can or will take the VBR's. I mentioned JFK specifically because it is business as usual. They keep hiring managers with little or no experience to BABYSIT the mechanics.

They expect the workers to do more and more with less and less but it never seems to apply to management. And I am only referring to aircraft maintenace before you give me examples of other departments within AA.

 

[Barfbag]

They keep hiring managers with little or no experience to BABYSIT the mechanics.

I guess they can also help the AMTs with their Jammies, and tuck them in 😀

 

[The Goose]

The cuts in the Forbes article mention BA cutting 10% of their management & admin staff.

The cuts AA is halfway thru implementing with management & admin will most likely exceed 10%. You might not see it in your corner of the universe, but I'm hearing cuts of 15% of the budgeted headcount. Some of that will be VBRs. The rest are layoff without recall.

Go ahead and call it a good start, but also remember those are real people earning not too much more than the topped out AMT or CC, and they, too have bills to pay and mouths to feed.

It's a shame the staff people will get caught up in this mess - wouldn't it be a pity if they showed the ability to get more accomplished without such a top-heavy environment?

E, you and I will never agree on the correct management/worker ratio - I still maintain American could do with 80% less management types than what is supported now.

This is the age of computers and other neat stuff - why all the oversight when a machine can flag problems and suggest one should get answers?

 

[eolesen]

Some areas could use fewer managers, no doubt.

90 to 95% of the employees don't need a lot of oversight... Unfortunately, it is the remaining 5-10% exhibiting little to no work ethic who drive the need for management eyes to watch over things. There are definitely a few in M&E who openly support finding ways to use sick time as added personal time off, or who've justified theft of customer property to offset concessions...

Hopeful, If you're going to make statements without qualifying them, expect me to call you on it... 😉

I'll take you at your word for how mismanaged M&E is, but keep in mind they only represent some 12-15% of the managers systemwide.

 

[Hopeful]

Some areas could use fewer managers, no doubt.

90 to 95% of the employees don't need a lot of oversight... Unfortunately, it is the remaining 5-10% exhibiting little to no work ethic who drive the need for management eyes to watch over things. There are definitely a few in M&E who openly support finding ways to use sick time as added personal time off, or who've justified theft of customer property to offset concessions...

Hopeful, If you're going to make statements without qualifying them, expect me to call you on it... 😉

I'll take you at your word for how mismanaged M&E is, but keep in mind they only represent some 12-15% of the managers systemwide.

What statements am I not qualifying? I've been at JFK for a long long time.. They hire babysitters and alot of them. By the way, JFK has TWO full time Lost Time Administrators to harass, er, I mean counsel, those who use sick time.
So maintenance supervisors, er I mean, MANAGERS, have absolutely NOTHING to do with anyone's sick time. And if you read my post, I said I am only speaking for maintenance at JFK. I am more than qualified to make statements about it.

They just hired a female,, doesn't matter the gender, from Rockwell Collins who maintains the video systems as a manager. She's gonna be OVERSEEING mechanics who have more time in the business than shes been alive.

 

[eolesen]

and you had equal opportunity to put in for the job. If you are more qualified for the job and don't put your name in for consideration, you really don't get a lot of sympathy from me as to the inexperience of the new manager....

 

[Hopeful]

and you had equal opportunity to put in for the job. If you are more qualified for the job and don't put your name in for consideration, you really don't get a lot of sympathy from me as to the inexperience of the new manager....

Where did I say I wanted the job????????????? Its not only about quality, its about quantity...

No thanks, don't feel like wearing knee pads when I go to work. I don't care WHO gets the job...It's the number of supervisors that AA seems to think is justified.. Once again they'll be tripping over each other..

They're eliminating 1300 mechanics positions but keep hiring supervisors....The ratio has just gone higher..

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Some areas could use fewer managers, no doubt.

. There are definitely a few in M&E who openly support finding ways to use sick time as added personal time off,

.

I dont look at it as "added personal time off"

The company found it necessary to reduce our vacation by one week.

We now find it necessary to call in sick for one week.

Whats fair is fair

😀

 

[The Goose]

Some areas could use fewer managers, no doubt.

90 to 95% of the employees don't need a lot of oversight... Unfortunately, it is the remaining 5-10% exhibiting little to no work ethic who drive the need for management eyes to watch over things. There are definitely a few in M&E who openly support finding ways to use sick time as added personal time off, or who've justified theft of customer property to offset concessions...

Hopeful, If you're going to make statements without qualifying them, expect me to call you on it... 😉

I'll take you at your word for how mismanaged M&E is, but keep in mind they only represent some 12-15% of the managers systemwide.

I grant you re: the balance of the system that I'm making assumptions based on what I see at M&E. I'd be very surprised if the numbers were any different.

As for the 5-10% with "little or no work ethic", agreed, but please explain why the company is tolerant of the 5-10%?

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

The company let the slackers through from the begining. Everyone was on probation for 6 months and could have been terminated at any time during that time. The company let these 5-10 percent slip through the cracks and now these 5-10 percent are protected by the union.

As for the rest of us with "little or no work ethic"
they made us this way

 

[The Goose]

As for the rest of us with "little or no work ethic"
they made us this way

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[eolesen]

now these 5-10 percent are protected by the union.

Yep. Unions protect the lowest common denominator, unfortunately. In management & non-union, the 5-10% people wash out eventually.

As for the rest of us with "little or no work ethic"
they made us this way

Hmmm, isn't that like my second grader saying his sister made him hit her?....

What ever happened to personal accountability? Oh, yeah. The union protects against that as well....


Back on topic.... RIFs rolled thru HDQ today. Not an insignificant number, and it seems to have hit pretty equally from L6 on down...

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

.



Hmmm, isn't that like my second grader saying his sister made him hit her?....

NO it isnt
but someday you might understand

What ever happened to personal accountability?
I am held accountable everyday for my actions. Never have a problem doing what I have to do. It just takes longer these days



Back on topic

They fired 3 level fours here in MIA not long ago
Then they make everyone a level 5
and now just hired three more new guys who dont have a clue

They pad the numbers to prepare for the layoff. Then we wind up with the same amount of people we had before they hired after they fired

Smoke and mirrors