With news about ATA and WN code-sharing, what are the possible ramifications of this to USAirways- with BOS, PIT, CLT, DCA, and LGA now indirectly being serviced by WN by code-share afer the first of the year? You know that WN will market the hell out of this and slowly chip away at market share. Any thoughts?
Ata And Wn Code Share
- Thread starter skyguy25
- Start date
wnbubbleboy
Veteran
skyguy25 said:
Can't hurt PIT to SLC via MDW for example. Anybody in Pittsburgh ready to ski the best snow on earth? BOOK A SOUTHWEST VACATION.
Can't hurt being fed by markets we don't directly serve.
jimntx
Veteran
The markets seem less than enamored of this deal. ATAH stock has dropped 37.6% since the market opened this morning. I think they realize that ATA will not be long for this world with this deal.
jimntx
Veteran
WNjetdoc said:
Not unless the deal changed under the table. The codeshare was supposed to be limited to connections at MDW.
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
From a previous thread from this summer...... something from the U boards, titles "puppies winning the dogfight"
QUOTE(RowUnderDCA @ Jul 19 2004, 10:22 PM)
WN's future international operation: ATA.
my prediction from July. B)
QUOTE(RowUnderDCA @ Jul 19 2004, 10:22 PM)
WN's future international operation: ATA.
my prediction from July. B)
jimntx said:
The following is taken from a article posted on the Indianapolis Star's website. The quote is taken from an inset within the article outlining the details of the SWA/ATA deal.
http://www.indystar.com/articles/4/202830-6794-223.html
What Is Codesharing?: "The code-sharing agreement between ATA and Southwest is a boon for passengers who fly both airlines. Code-sharing pacts allow passengers (and their luggage) to transfer seamlessly from one airline to another using a single ticket.
Under the agreement, air travelers will be able to book a trip through either ATA or Southwest by drawing on the flights and airports of both airlines. Initially, the code sharing will be available on nine nonstop flights from Chicago Midway, but Southwest Chief Executive Gary Kelly said the two airlines hope to add five more "connection points" and possibly some international flights in coming months. With code sharing, Southwest could bring 500,000 more passengers a year to ATA at Midway, Kelly said in an interview with The Indianapolis Star."
I posted this in a previous thread but I think it also applies here. Most importantly look at “similarities†to the current situation.
August 7, 1983 - Muse Air
Muse Air began service in 1982 between Dallas Love and Houston with MD-80s. In direct cooperation with Southwest, Muse was named for founder Lamar Muse. Lamar Muse was the co-founder of Southwest.
March 14, 1986 - Muse Air/TranStar
Southwest purchased major competitor Muse Air and renamed it TranStar in March, 1986. TranStar operated a 2-class service on a coast-to-coast southern U.S. basis. Muse Air flew DC-9s and MD-80s at the time. Southwest would shut down TranStar in late 1987.
Synopsis:
1. Muse Air was bought by LUV June 1985 for $60.5m.
2. Muse Air was a wholly owned subsidiary of LUV.
3. LUV installed their own personal in top positions at Muse Air.
4. LUV change the name of the airline from Muse Air to TranStar
5. TranStar was operated as a completely separate operation from WN. A passenger couldn’t interline between TranStar and WN.
6. Several talks were held between SWPA (Southwest Pilots Association and MAPA (Muse Air Pilots Association) about a common seniority list. SWPA wanted bottom of the list, MAPA want date of hire.
7. Because of the stonewalling by SWPA on the seniority issue MAPA went ALPA spring of 1987.
8. TranStar was shut down quickly summer of 1987 because TranStar was going to report a profit for the third quarter after a bruising fare war against CAL at HOU.
9. LUV told the TranStar MEC if the TranStar pilots didn’t fight the shutdown in court the pilots would be given a small severance pay package tied to their longevity with TranStar.
10. Those TranStar pilots with a B-737 type rating would guarantee an INTERVIEW with SWA if they filled out an application
11. Those TranStar pilots without B-737 type ratings were shown the door
12. Any TranStar pilot who later purchased a B-737 type rating would be guaranteed an INTERVIEW
13. The TranStar MEC requested LUV to wave the B-737 type-rating requirement for the TranStar pilots to be granted interview. To satisfy the LUV requirement that all pilots for WN have a B-737 type rating the TranStar MEC requested any TranStar pilot who passed the interview phase wouldn’t be assigned a class date until the B-737 type rating was obtained. LUV denied this request.
WN/ATA situation is starting to look familiar. I will let everyone speculate what the outcome will be. In either case this will be very interesting.
August 7, 1983 - Muse Air
Muse Air began service in 1982 between Dallas Love and Houston with MD-80s. In direct cooperation with Southwest, Muse was named for founder Lamar Muse. Lamar Muse was the co-founder of Southwest.
March 14, 1986 - Muse Air/TranStar
Southwest purchased major competitor Muse Air and renamed it TranStar in March, 1986. TranStar operated a 2-class service on a coast-to-coast southern U.S. basis. Muse Air flew DC-9s and MD-80s at the time. Southwest would shut down TranStar in late 1987.
Synopsis:
1. Muse Air was bought by LUV June 1985 for $60.5m.
2. Muse Air was a wholly owned subsidiary of LUV.
3. LUV installed their own personal in top positions at Muse Air.
4. LUV change the name of the airline from Muse Air to TranStar
5. TranStar was operated as a completely separate operation from WN. A passenger couldn’t interline between TranStar and WN.
6. Several talks were held between SWPA (Southwest Pilots Association and MAPA (Muse Air Pilots Association) about a common seniority list. SWPA wanted bottom of the list, MAPA want date of hire.
7. Because of the stonewalling by SWPA on the seniority issue MAPA went ALPA spring of 1987.
8. TranStar was shut down quickly summer of 1987 because TranStar was going to report a profit for the third quarter after a bruising fare war against CAL at HOU.
9. LUV told the TranStar MEC if the TranStar pilots didn’t fight the shutdown in court the pilots would be given a small severance pay package tied to their longevity with TranStar.
10. Those TranStar pilots with a B-737 type rating would guarantee an INTERVIEW with SWA if they filled out an application
11. Those TranStar pilots without B-737 type ratings were shown the door
12. Any TranStar pilot who later purchased a B-737 type rating would be guaranteed an INTERVIEW
13. The TranStar MEC requested LUV to wave the B-737 type-rating requirement for the TranStar pilots to be granted interview. To satisfy the LUV requirement that all pilots for WN have a B-737 type rating the TranStar MEC requested any TranStar pilot who passed the interview phase wouldn’t be assigned a class date until the B-737 type rating was obtained. LUV denied this request.
WN/ATA situation is starting to look familiar. I will let everyone speculate what the outcome will be. In either case this will be very interesting.
Airmech737
Member
- Jun 10, 2003
- 29
- 0
jimntx said:
Need to read... ATA CEO stated yesterday that there is a real good chance that the will be devalued and reissued. Just as most are during bankruptcy. Remember US Airways #1. All stock was killed and reissued to those creditors and the unlucky employees, which will happen again...If they really make it out.
I'm not sure I'd put too much stock (so to speak) in the share price of ATAHQ.PK given that those shares will probably be cancelled as part of the bankruptcy reorganization. I'm actually shocked that they spiked up to nearly $3 when it was announced that Southwest had won the bid, but I suspect that the reminders issued by the company of the ultimate value of the shares brought them back down.
Just to throw some additional info into the ring, ATA currently flies large jets non-stop domestically from MDW to BOS, CLT, DFW, DEN, FLL, RSW, LAS, LAX, MIA, MSP, LGA, EWR, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, SFO, SJU, SRQ, SEA, PIE, and DCA. They've already announced that CLT and MIA are closing, and it's unlikely that they'll duplicate WN's service to FLL (5 daily), LAS (10 daily), LAX (6 daily), MCO (7 daily), PHL (5 daily), or SEA (3 daily). Southwest also will have 6 dailies to TPA, so I think PIE (and maybe SRQ) is out. That leaves BOS, DFW, DEN, RSW, MSP, LGA, EWR, PIT, SJU, and DCA -- and if you exclude SJU, that gives you nine cities.
It will certainly be fascinating to see exactly how all this plays out -- and this could certainly cause some disruption to legacy carrier pricing in the SWA/ATA codeshare cities.
Just to throw some additional info into the ring, ATA currently flies large jets non-stop domestically from MDW to BOS, CLT, DFW, DEN, FLL, RSW, LAS, LAX, MIA, MSP, LGA, EWR, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, SFO, SJU, SRQ, SEA, PIE, and DCA. They've already announced that CLT and MIA are closing, and it's unlikely that they'll duplicate WN's service to FLL (5 daily), LAS (10 daily), LAX (6 daily), MCO (7 daily), PHL (5 daily), or SEA (3 daily). Southwest also will have 6 dailies to TPA, so I think PIE (and maybe SRQ) is out. That leaves BOS, DFW, DEN, RSW, MSP, LGA, EWR, PIT, SJU, and DCA -- and if you exclude SJU, that gives you nine cities.
It will certainly be fascinating to see exactly how all this plays out -- and this could certainly cause some disruption to legacy carrier pricing in the SWA/ATA codeshare cities.
