Another F/a Furloughs Commences January 15, 2004

[Walmartgreeter]

MANANGMENT ARE LIARS!

No more, we are done!

Interesting!

When confronted with the sick call rate what did you do? It appears that you have learned well at the feet mangement.

You dodged, skirted and posted dubious numbers, then flailed about with security risk fears to justify the sick calls.

Piney Bob. You have in the past seemed to be a credible poster. You are in fact insensitive or simply management. Who cares at this point. Been back to Bath and Body works lately to confront that cart driver on a PERSONAL call?.....guess not. You seem to be stuck on sick time. How about the trashing of a great airline by a bunch of thieves. I really hope, and I mean this....you never get in a situation like we are in with U management....and then get sick...really sick. You have no idea. Post away Piney, you are no longer believable.

 

[Twicebaked]

TwiceBaked:

Wow...they sure brainwash you fast don't they. I guess that new "division" is working wonders. How fast your tune changes my freind. You know that what they are doing is WRONG and DISGUSTING. There are 500 people that would like to leave and let a JR person stay...they won't even offer the option! This place is insane!

No, they did not brainwash me...whomever "they" are.

I don't agree with it. Re-read my post.
I know when to accept the things I cannot change. I read it and read it and read it. I know what it says. That is THE VERY REASON they company stated months back that they don't have to offer it. I have also said this MANY MANY months ago. I had this conversation with the Local 40 Pres. and said I don't think we can win this thing.

So, please don't put words into my mouth. I have not changed. I am just thinking rationally. Go and re-read my post and re-read that section of the contract. Once you have read it again and again, come back on here and tell me if you STILL think this is a result of a reduction in staffing.

I hope I am wrong. I hope Teddy and friends kick their azzes. I hope the AFA wins the grievence. I personally don't think we can, but that is me.

Again, don't tell me I changed!!! I haven't. In fact, I was about to rip Piney a new one but you interupted me.... 😀

 

[Whatnow?]

Pitbull,

Talk about 2 weeks notice....why did they wait for the last minute to do this furlough? was it because of the Holidays?

 

[Twicebaked]

Twice,

Any number over 367 is a further reduction. Presently management intiated a further reduction of personal by 185.

This a not only an MEC grievance but a media event that portrays further evidence of this management not honoring their commitments.

Not active though!!!

Pitbull,

You know I AM RIGHT THERE WITH YOU!!!!!!

I hope the union can fight this, but you know my thoughts.
Again for all you henchmen out there....I don't agree with this, but I read something different obviously.

 

[N628AU]

Two things spring into my head reading this.

(1) That voluntary furlough language seems pretty clear, and an almost certain loss for the company when it comes to greivance. With people taking VF that are more senior, it saves by having the senior ones go first financially (at least one would believe so), eliminates a lot of bumping nonsense, and saves the company the money of having to fight a greivance no matter who wins it. What are they really trying to do not offering it? Makes no sense to me.

(2) I think with the new reserve system, and reserves sitting around not making guarantee, everyone expected a furlough. It seems to me that 364 or so that are already on VF see their status change, so there is no net loss or gain there. The 200 getting involuntary furloughed now would be the new loss. Did 300 F/As come back in December? If so, it would seem to be a net gain of 100 since November. PitBull, would you care to help me out with actual numbers here? What bases are being hit?

 

[MarkMyWords]

Twice Baked -

By my math I come up with the same as PitBull. How exactly do you figure there are no losses of additional jobs? 367 return from vol leave. 552 leave. Net loss 185. While this will help more reserves break guarantee, I don't understand how they can't offer vol leave based on the contract language.

Of course I didn't understand how the company thought they could outsource the Airbus work either.

Based on the information presented here, the company is wrong in not offering a vol leave.

 

[PITbull]

Pitbull,

Talk about 2 weeks notice....why did they wait for the last minute to do this furlough? was it because of the Holidays?

I believe so. I will be interested to see what happens New Years Eve an New Years Day.

 

[PITbull]

Two things spring into my head reading this.

(1) That voluntary furlough language seems pretty clear, and an almost certain loss for the company when it comes to greivance. With people taking VF that are more senior, it saves by having the senior ones go first financially (at least one would believe so), eliminates a lot of bumping nonsense, and saves the company the money of having to fight a greivance no matter who wins it. What are they really trying to do not offering it? Makes no sense to me.

(2) I think with the new reserve system, and reserves sitting around not making guarantee, everyone expected a furlough. It seems to me that 364 or so that are already on VF see their status change, so there is no net loss or gain there. The 200 getting involuntary furloughed now would be the new loss. Did 300 F/As come back in December? If so, it would seem to be a net gain of 100 since November. PitBull, would you care to help me out with actual numbers here? What bases are being hit?

Pittsburgh is not being hit, because we are a more senior base. Mostly PHL and LGA will be effected, some DCA.

I am upset with the fact that management had the audacity to offer vacation "fly back" for January. A slap in AFA's face. We don't have any contactual language to stop that and management has the right to offer it. I am hoping NO ONE flies back their vacation in January.

The bumping will happen, but not in February. No displacements through Feb. so f/as can breath easy for 1 month. However, there is no trasfer or moving expenses once your displaced, UNLESS it is your second and third displacement.

We have asked management to offer Vol Furlough ad nauseum, they say it just too much administrative work and difficult with training dates for returnees, blah, blah, blah.

No more relief to this management on any level, in any shape, or form.

 

[Twicebaked]

Mark,

They did not reduce the head count by 552. 352 were INACTIVE. They reduced it by 200. 300+ returned therefore, we are 100+ than we had after ALL STAFFING REDUCTIONS WERE DONE.

If we had reduced the staff down to 5,500. (this included vol fur) This was all the staffing reductions that were done. A certain amount voluntarily left to allow others to stay. Following me.....

Now, we still have 5,500, but 300+ people now return from VF...they are not needed. Are we down to 5,200? NO!!! 300+ took "their spots" back. This leaves the same "staffing" numbers. It's just a changing of the names.

Am I the only one that sees this this way????
I know I am not.

AGAIN, I HOPE I AM WRONG, BUT.......

 

[PITbull]

Our head count after Jan. 15 2004, will be approx 4,650. Management took into account attrition for Nov. Dec and Jan. Otherwise it would have been higher.

If you were correct, Twice, than we should still be at 5,200 f/as. We are not. Has everything to do with the new Reserve system, NOT the returnees. In fact, management said in late Oct. that there may not even be a furlough at all because of the attrition rate...you know, termiantions, retirees, resignations etc.

THIS ALL HAS TO DO WITH THE TIME BALANCE SYSTEM. Its all about getting rid of heads. That is where the cost savings to the company is.

 

[supercruiser]

AFA GRIEVANCE TO BE FILED ASAP ALONG WTIH THE CHANGE IN ACARS for pay purposes for flight crews. Management states that the "pay" starts when there is aircraft wheel movement, starting 1/1/04. ALPA to file MEC grievance as well.

This was sort of lost in the background with the announced furloughs, that the flt crews will be taking additional pay cuts by "recalculating" when our pay starts. Now it starts when all doors are closed with the parking brake off and ends when a door opens at the end of the flt with the parking brake back on. ALPA already fought and won this battle once a year ago, but obviously that didn't last very long.

It's too bad we can't get paid when we come on duty at the airport, like every other hourly airline employee on the planet, but only flt crews getting paid by the airplane block hour is some holdover from the Wright Brother days evidently, that just won't go away.

Unfortunately if this happens, we'll probably be trying to get back those minutes of pay the company will be stealing from us on both ends of the flight by delaying the plane somewhere else along the way to make up for it. Sorry folks, but it's only management running amok again with another scheme to screw over some more employees. It seems like I'm always thinking of these management proclamations whenever I have the opportunity to save this company a dime with my actions, so are they really saving money this way? Spiteful? Yes, but surely understandable.

supercruiser

 

[Twicebaked]

Pitbull,

If that is correct then you do have a fight on your hands.

You know as well as I do though that the company is blaming this on the fact that the vol's returned.

Can you prove it otherwise? I hope you can.

I AM WITH YOU ON THAT!!!!!

 

[Light Years]

Twice,

Makes sense to me. I can see how the company thinks they can get away with it. Its in the companys best interest to offer voluntary furloughs.

I'm with 628 in trying to figure out what is behind this. Why are they trying thier darndest to NOT offer a voluntary. You would think they'd be eager to let the higher paid and more senior people take the furlough and keep around the junior, lower paid folks? You know, park the more expensive ones in the desert and keep the cheaper, more efficient newer models? They see us as numbers to be crunched. Are the bean counters not thinking straight or is there more going on here? Maybe it doesnt matter to them as everyone (or just everyone needed) will be slotted into MAA positions.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Mark,

They did not reduce the head count by 552. 352 were INACTIVE. They reduced it by 200. 300+ returned therefore, we are 100+ than we had after ALL STAFFING REDUCTIONS WERE DONE.

If we had reduced the staff down to 5,500. (this included vol fur) This was all the staffing reductions that were done. A certain amount voluntarily left to allow others to stay. Following me.....

Now, we still have 5,500, but 300+ people now return from VF...they are not needed. Are we down to 5,200? NO!!! 300+ took "their spots" back. This leaves the same "staffing" numbers. It's just a changing of the names.

Am I the only one that sees this this way????
I know I am not.

AGAIN, I HOPE I AM WRONG, BUT.......

I gotta say that I am still not seeing the fuzzy math. I may be having a slow night, but this is what I am getting from you.

US needs 5500 f/a's to operate the schedule. In Dec 350 f/a's came back from Vol Furlough. So now we have 5850 active f/a's but only need 5500. So the 350 that came back displace the bottom 350 to involuntary furlough. So we are back to 5500. But the number PitBull quoted was 550 were being furloughed so we now need only 5300 to operate the schedule. There for the 200 addtional furloughs are a reduction in force. Right? ( I rounded the numbers to make it easier)

I am sorry if I missed something, but this is the way I see things....

 

[EyeInTheSky]

PineyBob, you say let the games begin. Doesn't this all sound sick to you? For god's sake it's the frickin' holidays and they announce furloughs! This management is so sickening evil. What goes around comes around. Let's hope Dave gets his firing soon.