And I thought my family had a problem...

[twaokc]

"Actually, I do pensions, annuities, etc. I insure you against the risk of living too long.

Let me ask you this -- would you want your retirement checks to be coming from:

1) your current employer as long as it''s around

2) your current employer followed by the PBGC paying less afer the BK

3) an established insurance company that will be around forever"

What makes you think an insurance company will be around forever????
The same thing was thought about the airlines a few years ago....Every industry is taking their share of the hits, and the insurance industry will take the biggest and hardest of them all one of these days...

 

[JS]

Actually, I do pensions, annuities, etc. I insure you against the risk of living too long.

Let me ask you this -- would you want your retirement checks to be coming from:

1) your current employer as long as it's around

2) your current employer followed by the PBGC paying less after a bankruptcy

3) an established insurance company that will be around forever

 

[flydcoop]

----------------
On 4/29/2003 7:12:47 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:

Just like JS, I have no sympathy for people living paycheck to paycheck, whether they make $20000 or $200000 per year.


----------------​

I''m curious on how to avoid living paycheck to paycheck making $20,000/yr. I live like a monk (except for this computer, free internet), put 15% in my 401k and still come up short. Thank-god it''s just me to support.

Do you also lack sympathy for people living paycheck to paycheck on $20,000/yr (or less) who have kids and no medical insurance?

Good grief.

Coop

 

[Winglet]

I think the point of many on this board is that his whinning is cheap, unseemly, and without class, when so many others are affected so much worse than he.

 

[RV4]

What does Arpey''s house cost? And how much is his paycut?

 

[KCFlyer]

----------------
On 4/29/2003 9:55:09 PM RV4 wrote:

What does Arpey''s house cost? And how much is his paycut?

----------------​

Why...are you thinking about buying it? To each according to their needs, eh comrade?

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

----------------
On 4/29/2003 9:55:09 PM RV4 wrote:

What does Arpey's house cost? And how much is his paycut?

----------------​

Who cares? His house is probably worth close to the same as Griffins is if it is in the same subdivision. I live a mile or two from Colleyville, and it isn't nearly as snooty there as it is in Highland Park or Southlake. Most of the homes go for $400K to $600K in that particular neighborhood.

Tax values are probably higher than what they've been selling for lately, though. According to Realtor.Com, there are 245 listings in Southlake/Colleyville in the $400K-$650K range, and 130 listings in the $650K-$1M range. That's a buyers market for high end houses if there ever was one...

Just a wild guess - his paycut will be offset by a bump in pay for the added responsibility (which anyone getting promoted at AA is eligible for even with paycuts in effect), but it won't be a bump up to what Carty was making by any means.

I still can't get over their $5000 per month shortfall. That's more than all of the expenses for our family of five combined, including the mortgage...

 

[TWAnr]

----------------
On 4/29/2003 8:28:08 PM KCFlyer wrote:


Because they may have to sell their house does NOT mean that they squandered every penny they brought home.

----------------
​

I started this thread, so I might as well chime in with my opinion.

According to the Appraisal District records, the house has a 2002 market value of $594,357. Assuming that is what they paid for it (which I doubt, there must have been some appreciation), they should carry a mortgage of no more than 80% of purchase price, or roughly $480,000. At today's market rates, they can get a non-conforming, also known as a jumbo, thirty years amortized loan at 6%. The monthly debt service, or payment, on such a loan is $2,877.84. This is not exactly a hardship on an income of close to $200,000 a year.

But to get to the intent of my message, this article does a disservice to all the airline employees who suffer true hardships as a result of the turmoil that hit the industry. It portrays the life of the rich and spoiled as opposed to those who will suffer real adversities by totally losing the ability to provide for their families and themselves. The ones who will lose their homes, the ones who will lose their health insurance, the ones who will no longer be able to send their kids to college.

 

[TWAnr]

----------------
On 4/29/2003 9:55:09 PM RV4 wrote:

What does Arpey''s house cost? And how much is his paycut?

----------------​

The 2002 appraised value of Arpey''s house is $614,700. That is considerably less than Carty''s $2,827,750.

 

[MrMarky]

----------------
Dan Griffin, a 25-year veteran pilot and a captain, and Holly, a 30-year flight attendant...
----------------​

So sad, their income is going down to a little under $200K per year, while comparable TWA people are out on the streets. Meanwhile, single 25 year old apartment dwellers who were hired by AA on April 9, 2001 are still flying.

Go figure. Vote Republican...things are going great!

And while you''re at it...''get over it'' and ''be thankful you still have a job''.

 

[wts54]

Suddenly, the real estate agents were knocking on the front door. The kids in the Griffin household in Colleyville knew about the problems with American Airlines from watching the television news, but it didn''t hit home until a Realtor showed up at 9 o''clock one night. The kids looked at their parents -- Dan Griffin, a 25-year veteran pilot and a captain, and Holly, a 30-year flight attendant -- with puzzled looks.

Too bad so sad deal with it.

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 4/29/2003 10:44:41 PM TWAnr wrote:

----------------
On 4/29/2003 9:55:09 PM RV4 wrote:

What does Arpey''s house cost? And how much is his paycut?

----------------​

The 2002 appraised value of Arpey''s house is $614,700. That is considerably less than Carty''s $2,827,750.


----------------​

Poor Gerry, still stuck in the ghetto.

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 4/29/2003 10:54:00 PM eolesen wrote:

Just a wild guess - his paycut will be offset by a bump in pay for the added responsibility (which anyone getting promoted at AA is eligible for even with paycuts in effect), but it won''t be a bump up to what Carty was making by any means.


----------------

He gets paid more for added responsibility? Well if thats the case then us mechanics are really underpaid. If he screws up billions of dollars could be lost and thousands of people can lose their jobs. If we screw up hundreds of people could lose their lives. What carries a greater moral weight, money and jobs or lives?

So Arpey wont be getting what Carty was getting, but he is still getting a raise. Even if I bid for a higher position I would still be making less than I was.

Still driving to save pennies per gallon?​

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

----------------
On 4/30/2003 5:52:44 AM Bob Owens wrote:

What carries a greater moral weight, money and jobs or lives?

----------------​

Still trying to bait people into the "my job is more important than yours is" argument, eh?...

----------------
On 4/30/2003 5:52:44 AM Bob Owens wrote:

Still driving to save pennies per gallon?​

----------------

Absolutely. Last week it was a 12c per gallon difference. And now that I''m taking the train to work, I''m saving even more on an annualized basis.

Still paying city and state income taxes in New York?

 

[FWAAA]

----------------
On 4/29/2003 8:28:08 PM KCFlyer wrote:


Ah, compassion for one''s fellow man.  You know, I''d be willng to wager that ANYONE posting on this board who was fortunate enough to attain the income level that the couple reached would NOT be living in a one bedroom apartment.   Because they may have to sell their house does NOT mean that they squandered every penny they brought home.    After 25 years with a company, would you be living in the same house you did when you started?  I didn''t see a word about their savings or lack thereof.  If you were facing a decrease in your household income of $5,000 per month, and you know that you''re looking at it for 5 years, would you want to fill that income gap from your savings account?



----------------​

I wouldn''t expect the Griffins to make up the difference from their savings for five years; I said that I would expect that most similar families (unless they are spendthrifts) would simply decrease the amount they saved each month by the decrease in income.

Yes, I''m assuming that a two-income family making about $20k/mo in a troubled industry would be smart enough to save more than $5k per month. Unfortunately, the Griffins probably are not. Ouch.