LaBradford22
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- May 15, 2003
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That is indeed good news, and a good way to finish up the day. Thanks for that.
AMR Has Positive Cash Flow in May
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WingNaPrayer
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Dreamers. Any one of you that does not now realize that AA never really needed those deep concessions from employees is blind.
Now, keep your eye on the executive bonuses.
Now, keep your eye on the executive bonuses.
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LaBradford22
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- May 15, 2003
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- #5
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On 6/26/2003 10:24:02 AM WingNaPrayer wrote:
Dreamers. Any one of you that does not now realize that AA never really needed those deep concessions from employees is blind.
Now, keep your eye on the executive bonuses.
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On 6/26/2003 10:24:02 AM WingNaPrayer wrote:
Dreamers. Any one of you that does not now realize that AA never really needed those deep concessions from employees is blind.
Now, keep your eye on the executive bonuses.
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Um, I think there is a cause and an effect here.
Cause: deep employee concessions.
Effect: positive cash flow from operations in May.
Also, keep in mind that positive cash flow from operations does not necessarily mean positive earnings. So, AA is not even close to being out of the woods yet.
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On 6/26/2003 10:36:40 AM LaBradford22 wrote:
...keep in mind that positive cash flow from operations does not necessarily mean positive earnings. So, AA is not even close to being out of the woods yet.
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On 6/26/2003 10:36:40 AM LaBradford22 wrote:
...keep in mind that positive cash flow from operations does not necessarily mean positive earnings. So, AA is not even close to being out of the woods yet.
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Perhaps not, but it is a big step in the right direction. Here''s hoping for a strong summer season.
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On 6/26/2003 10:36:40 AM LaBradford22 wrote:
Um, I think there is a cause and an effect here.
Cause: deep employee concessions.
Effect: positive cash flow from operations in May.
Also, keep in mind that positive cash flow from operations does not necessarily mean positive earnings. So, AA is not even close to being out of the woods yet.
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The question is how is our cash flow? On 6/26/2003 10:36:40 AM LaBradford22 wrote:
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On 6/26/2003 10:24:02 AM WingNaPrayer wrote:
Dreamers. Any one of you that does not now realize that AA never really needed those deep concessions from employees is blind.
Now, keep your eye on the executive bonuses.
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On 6/26/2003 10:24:02 AM WingNaPrayer wrote:
Dreamers. Any one of you that does not now realize that AA never really needed those deep concessions from employees is blind.
Now, keep your eye on the executive bonuses.
----------------
Um, I think there is a cause and an effect here.
Cause: deep employee concessions.
Effect: positive cash flow from operations in May.
Also, keep in mind that positive cash flow from operations does not necessarily mean positive earnings. So, AA is not even close to being out of the woods yet.
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Gee its great to hear that AA has more money coming in than going out, by the way we just saw three brand new widebodies fly through here in the last couple of weeks. Great to see where our concessions are going.
Maybe I''m being a little selfish but I think that I would rather see AA fly the same old planes while they are sticking their hand so deep into my pockets. I''d rather see a new car in my driveway than three new airplanes in the hangar. I think that 14 years and 260,000 miles is more than a reasonable amount of use to expect from a car. I dont think I''m being wasteful, its not like I''m putting my name on Sports Arenas or anything. Then again the TWU is buying cars, maybe they can spend a little of that $345,000 in the car budget to get me some new wheels since after all they are the ones that said that every penny that they told us to give up was absolutely necissary!
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On 6/26/2003 5:58:18 PM Bob Owens wrote:
The question is how is our cash flow?
Gee its great to hear that AA has more money coming in than going out, by the way we just saw three brand new widebodies fly through here in the last couple of weeks. Great to see where our concessions are going.
Maybe I''m being a little selfish but I think that I would rather see AA fly the same old planes while they are sticking their hand so deep into my pockets. I''d rather see a new car in my driveway than three new airplanes in the hangar. I think that 14 years and 260,000 miles is more than a reasonable amount of use to expect from a car. I dont think I''m being wasteful, its not like I''m putting my name on Sports Arenas or anything. Then again the TWU is buying cars, maybe they can spend a little of that $345,000 in the car budget to get me some new wheels since after all they are the ones that said that every penny that they told us to give up was absolutely necissary!
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Doesn''t matter how many times someone posts factual information, you just rant and rant about things you don''t understand.On 6/26/2003 5:58:18 PM Bob Owens wrote:
The question is how is our cash flow?
Gee its great to hear that AA has more money coming in than going out, by the way we just saw three brand new widebodies fly through here in the last couple of weeks. Great to see where our concessions are going.
Maybe I''m being a little selfish but I think that I would rather see AA fly the same old planes while they are sticking their hand so deep into my pockets. I''d rather see a new car in my driveway than three new airplanes in the hangar. I think that 14 years and 260,000 miles is more than a reasonable amount of use to expect from a car. I dont think I''m being wasteful, its not like I''m putting my name on Sports Arenas or anything. Then again the TWU is buying cars, maybe they can spend a little of that $345,000 in the car budget to get me some new wheels since after all they are the ones that said that every penny that they told us to give up was absolutely necissary!
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AA did everything it could (short of Ch 11) to defer the widebodies. Boeing has accomodated AA since September 11 (allowing deferal of many orders) yet Boeing wouldn''t budge on these.
And your endless tirades about advertising expenses reveal just how unsophisticated you really are about multi-billion dollar businesses that must capture consumer dollars.
So go buy a new (or used) car. No one is stopping you.
It''s sad to see a grown man whine like my children do.
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On 6/26/2003 6
49 PM FWAAA wrote:
Doesn't matter how many times someone posts factual information, you just rant and rant about things you don't understand.
Such a pity that we are all not as enlightened as you.
AA did everything it could (short of Ch 11) to defer the widebodies. Boeing has accomodated AA since September 11 (allowing deferal of many orders) yet Boeing wouldn't budge on these.
Wow, for someone with a casual interest you sure go deep.
And your endless tirades about advertising expenses reveal just how unsophisticated you really are about multi-billion dollar businesses that must capture consumer dollars.
Might I add "Sophisticated" to your attributes? So silly of me to not understand that having AA plastered on the side of a sports arenas is going to make passengers look past the fares, after all, nobody ever heard of American Airlines.
So go buy a new (or used) car. No one is stopping you.
Well there is this little thing that you like to cite calling "living within your means". I dont think that it would be financially prudent to take on such debt although I would like to drive something newer. I had planned on it but it looks like the next five years will not be as good for us employees as for you "stockholders, customers and other casual observers with no interest in the company".
It's sad to see a grown man whine like my children do.
You can SEE me?
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On 6/26/2003 6
49 PM FWAAA wrote:Doesn't matter how many times someone posts factual information, you just rant and rant about things you don't understand.
Such a pity that we are all not as enlightened as you.
AA did everything it could (short of Ch 11) to defer the widebodies. Boeing has accomodated AA since September 11 (allowing deferal of many orders) yet Boeing wouldn't budge on these.
Wow, for someone with a casual interest you sure go deep.
And your endless tirades about advertising expenses reveal just how unsophisticated you really are about multi-billion dollar businesses that must capture consumer dollars.
Might I add "Sophisticated" to your attributes? So silly of me to not understand that having AA plastered on the side of a sports arenas is going to make passengers look past the fares, after all, nobody ever heard of American Airlines.
So go buy a new (or used) car. No one is stopping you.
Well there is this little thing that you like to cite calling "living within your means". I dont think that it would be financially prudent to take on such debt although I would like to drive something newer. I had planned on it but it looks like the next five years will not be as good for us employees as for you "stockholders, customers and other casual observers with no interest in the company".
It's sad to see a grown man whine like my children do.
You can SEE me?
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AA did everything it could (short of Ch 11) to defer the widebodies. Boeing has accomodated AA since September 11 (allowing deferal of many orders) yet Boeing wouldn''t budge on these.
Wow, for someone with a casual interest you sure go deep
It called a contract. If AA could you better believe they would have deferred all of their orders,many other airlines would do the same.
Wow, for someone with a casual interest you sure go deep
It called a contract. If AA could you better believe they would have deferred all of their orders,many other airlines would do the same.
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On 6/26/2003 10:03:03 PM texflyer wrote:
AA did everything it could (short of Ch 11) to defer the widebodies. Boeing has accomodated AA since September 11 (allowing deferal of many orders) yet Boeing wouldn''t budge on these.
Wow, for someone with a casual interest you sure go deep
It called a contract. If AA could you better believe they would have deferred all of their orders,many other airlines would do the same.
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Really. It''s not like this news wasn''t broadcast nationwide for all to read. Plus, AA''s own public filings disclose that it tried to defer these planes (like it did many others) but Boeing was insistent that these planes were going to find a home at AA this year.On 6/26/2003 10:03:03 PM texflyer wrote:
AA did everything it could (short of Ch 11) to defer the widebodies. Boeing has accomodated AA since September 11 (allowing deferal of many orders) yet Boeing wouldn''t budge on these.
Wow, for someone with a casual interest you sure go deep
It called a contract. If AA could you better believe they would have deferred all of their orders,many other airlines would do the same.
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That''s why Boeing financed the planes. The concessions have nothing to do with "paying for the planes" since AA''s only payments were the down payments and progress payments made prior to the concessions.
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On 6/26/2003 5
14 PM Diversion wrote:
Perhaps not, but it is a big step in the right direction. Here''s hoping for a strong summer season.
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On 6/26/2003 5
14 PM Diversion wrote: Perhaps not, but it is a big step in the right direction. Here''s hoping for a strong summer season.
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Definitely a step in the right direction, but it is definitely not equivalent to profits yet. One important non-cash expense that wouldn''t be figured into this would be depreciation. in Q1, this accounted for $338 million in expenses, and would be roughly the same in Q2, or about $113 million for a month. That equipment that is depreciating needs to be replaced eventually, so the victory is still rather hollow if you can''t afford to replace your airplanes, tugs, etc, as they age. With roughly 812 airplanes, maintaining fleet size with an average age of 15 years would still require approximately 1 new plane a week, so seeing new aircraft in small numbers shouldn''t be seen as a negative, either.
One other (possible) point - I believe TWA used to report cash flow as including sales on future tickets. Therefore, if a customer buys a ticket for a flight in September now, it will affect cash flow for June, though the revenue is not actually realized (and accounted for in profit/loss) until September when the service is rendered. Thus, if advance bookings are strong, you can see a jump in cash flow now. This can be a good thing, clearly. However, if bookings are seasonal, you may see positive cash flow now, while still making a loss operationally, then in the future, you can see negative cash flow while actually making a profit.
lownslow, I believe cash flow does include future bookings. I think the only thing AA excluded was government aid. Why they did I don''t know; it''s still cash.
You are correct that the revenue from a ticket sale is not recognized until the flight is taken. It seems like there are a lot of people out there who don''t realize that cash flow is virtually meaningless; it is profits that matter. Considering the rapid increase in share price, what''s really scary is a lot of those people are buying AMR stock based solely on the cash flow report! Stupid, stupid, stupid!
You are correct that the revenue from a ticket sale is not recognized until the flight is taken. It seems like there are a lot of people out there who don''t realize that cash flow is virtually meaningless; it is profits that matter. Considering the rapid increase in share price, what''s really scary is a lot of those people are buying AMR stock based solely on the cash flow report! Stupid, stupid, stupid!
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On 6/27/2003 1:55:35 PM JS wrote:
Considering the rapid increase in share price, what''s really scary is a lot of those people are buying AMR stock based solely on the cash flow report! Stupid, stupid, stupid!
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I just hope they don''t wise up before I can exercise my Options!!! Lets hear it for STUPID!!!On 6/27/2003 1:55:35 PM JS wrote:
Considering the rapid increase in share price, what''s really scary is a lot of those people are buying AMR stock based solely on the cash flow report! Stupid, stupid, stupid!
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On 6/27/2003 1:55:35 PM JS wrote:
lownslow, I believe cash flow does include future bookings. I think the only thing AA excluded was government aid. Why they did I don''t know; it''s still cash.
You are correct that the revenue from a ticket sale is not recognized until the flight is taken. It seems like there are a lot of people out there who don''t realize that cash flow is virtually meaningless; it is profits that matter. Considering the rapid increase in share price, what''s really scary is a lot of those people are buying AMR stock based solely on the cash flow report! Stupid, stupid, stupid!
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On 6/27/2003 1:55:35 PM JS wrote:
lownslow, I believe cash flow does include future bookings. I think the only thing AA excluded was government aid. Why they did I don''t know; it''s still cash.
You are correct that the revenue from a ticket sale is not recognized until the flight is taken. It seems like there are a lot of people out there who don''t realize that cash flow is virtually meaningless; it is profits that matter. Considering the rapid increase in share price, what''s really scary is a lot of those people are buying AMR stock based solely on the cash flow report! Stupid, stupid, stupid!
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Actually it''s cash flow, rather than profits, that are meaningful. You pay the bills with cash, not profits. Profits include charges that can be somewhat arbitrary - do you depreciate an aircraft for 25 years? Profits will go up if you depreciate over 30. That''s not to say that the books are cooked, there are generally accepted principles, it''s just to point out that profits include arbitrary, non-cash items that don''t mean squat when the bill collector comes knocking.
Also, to respond to an earlier post, positive cash flow doesn''t mean that the unions got duped, AA didn''t need concessions etc. A simple analogy might help clarify: you have a mortgage due and have been out of work (sorry if that hits a little close to home, but it helps make a point), you manage to pull together some contract work that gets helps you pay this month''s mortgage, but you still aren''t sure how you will make it next month and so on.
This is our situation: positive cash flow is used to service our huge debt burden, we only hope that it keeps coming in.
