AMR expect loss

[Hopeful]

It's a good thing the execs have a "concrete" agreement to receive their PUPs.



http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081013/amr_earning...eview.html?.v=1

 

[eolesen]

no less concrete than your employment agreement.

Has anything been taken out of your contract as a result of the losses over the past few years? Didn't think so.

 

[Hopeful]

no less concrete than your employment agreement.

Has anything been taken out of your contract as a result of the losses over the past few years? Didn't think so.

You truly are the patron saint for corporate greed, aren't you...


Would you like to see the concessionary agreement forced down my throat by both the company and the company union?
I lost about $120,000.00 over this life of this "deal."

What would you call that?


I can tell you that for the 3 plus decades i've been at AA, my "employment agreement" had been weakened, altered, modified, mystified, fried, refried and tried and tried again....

You ask "what has been taken out of my contract"..You have to be kidding, St. ERIC, you really have to kidding...


You do remember when Carty and Co. were pointing the bankruptcy gun to all our heads they were protecting their wallets,don't you Eric?

So big deal Carty resigned and still walked away with a nice chunk of change..

What do I walk away with if I screw up the way he did?

Does my concrete employment agreement allow me to walk away with millions?

Heck, I would be lucky to get hundreds...

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

no less concrete than your employment agreement.

Has anything been taken out of your contract as a result of the losses over the past few years? Didn't think so.

They cant take anymore they took it all in 2003 and that my friend is why our DOT rankings are where they are.

AA destined to remain at the bottom until moral improves or until we get our 50 thousand performance shares.

We know why you fly



But seriously

Just what exactly is our employment agreement. I am sure you are not refering to that POS contract that was signed off by Jim Little.

 

[TWU informer]

no less concrete than your employment agreement.

Has anything been taken out of your contract as a result of the losses over the past few years? Didn't think so.

As a matter of fact, each year my medical out-of-pocket benefit has indeed gone up. Which has no concrete cap, and this year went up worse than most.

Next Question?

Let's give the Bozos big bonus awards so that the overpaid unable to manage without help from the floor and consulting firms do not go to the competition and destroy their employee morale.

 

[BigBangTheory]

You truly are the patron saint for corporate greed, aren't you...


Would you like to see the concessionary agreement forced down my throat by both the company and the company union?
I lost about $120,000.00 over this life of this "deal."

What would you call that?


I can tell you that for the 3 plus decades i've been at AA, my "employment agreement" had been weakened, altered, modified, mystified, fried, refried and tried and tried again....

You ask "what has been taken out of my contract"..You have to be kidding, St. ERIC, you really have to kidding...


You do remember when Carty and Co. were pointing the bankruptcy gun to all our heads they were protecting their wallets,don't you Eric?

So big deal Carty resigned and still walked away with a nice chunk of change..

What do I walk away with if I screw up the way he did?

Does my concrete employment agreement allow me to walk away with millions?

Heck, I would be lucky to get hundreds...

SCRAM! Take a hike!

 

[Mach85ER]

no less concrete than your employment agreement.

Has anything been taken out of your contract as a result of the losses over the past few years? Didn't think so.

Yup, daily erosion due to inflation, loss of per diem spending power. Try $50 a day in Europe. It goes pretty far buying the ladies Mt Dews at the Walmarts on domestic layovers though. B)

 

[eolesen]

that's all stuff you lost in 2003... What specifically has come out of the contract to offset losses since then?

I don't like the pup, but it's contractual. Get over it. They're not giving up what they're contractually entitled to. Beating a dead horse won't make it move.

If you don't want it extended, make it an issue at the bargaining table. No ratification without the plan being terminated. No arbitrator or PEB is going to allow that to stand in the way of an otherwise reasonable contract. And the press would eat it up after all the latest kerfuffle on Wall Street.

Mach, your per deim should be set to something along the lines of the federal govt per diem. That goes up with inflation as opposed to a contract.

 

[Hopeful]

I don't like the pup, but it's contractual. Get over it. They're not giving up what they're contractually entitled to. Beating a dead horse won't make it move.

These PUPS have been granted during the "bad" times.. AA's excuse was that they need to keep the "key" talent from leaving... LET EM LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I will mention Carty again....HE "SECURED HIS AND THE THE TOP PRIVILEGED PARACHUTES WHILE THREATENING US WITH BANKRUPTCY..all this during the worst time of this company's history.


Get over it, you say?

I say the company better get over bad employee morale because it's here to stay.

 

[FWAAA]

These PUPS have been granted during the "bad" times.. AA's excuse was that they need to keep the "key" talent from leaving... LET EM LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Performance Share Plans (PSP for 2007-present; PUP was 2006) were originally granted years and years ago, before the bad times. As the execs took paycuts in 2003 just like the represented employees, these payouts aren't just to keep them employed by AA. These payouts are to keep them from successfully suing AA for unpaid compensation.

Put another way: If the worthless retards you call your union had successfully negotiated something similar to the PSPs for the rank and file, would you be posting every day how horrible the PSP plans are to try to convince your brothers to refuse the payouts just because AA showed a net loss?

Didn't think so.

When you entrust your livelihood to retards like your worthless union, you get crap for compensation. News flash for you: Nobody cares about your morale. Employees hated AA in 1980, in 1983, in 1993, in 2001 and in 2003 and probably every other year I didn't list. Your pay got whacked and you got no upside potential because you hired idiots to represent you. From the top all the way to the Pledge of Allegiance-reciting goose-stepping negotiators. Incompetents, all.

Ownens has repeatedly posted that the worthless union TWU had previously screwed you guys in earlier concessionary agreements in the 1980s and 1990s. Yet you guys didn't seem to learn the lesson. Management's takeaway from that? Mechanics just don't learn. Management can beat you all like rented mules. You bray and complain for a while, and then return to be beaten again. Over and over and over again.

You're right. Management should simply refuse all of their variable compensation just because the hired help is envious of their agreements. The hired help that should have hired competent negotiators but didn't.

You guys often post that system inefficiencies and net losses are none of your concern; they are entirely within management's control. Perhaps that's their feelings about your contract negotiations - it's not managment's job to ensure that the unions negotiate beneficial compensation arrangements for their members.

 

[Hopeful]

it's not managment's job to ensure that the unions negotiate beneficial compensation arrangements for their members.

What do you call threatening gloom and doom bankruptcy unless the unions agree to their demands for massive concessions while Carty and company are guaranteeing their "beneficial arrangements" for themselves?

This kinda reminds me of the Delta, USAir and Northwest and United CEO's begging a bankruptcy judge to abrogate their union contracts because they can't survive with them in tact only to later on ask that same bankruptcy judge to honor and in some cases, increase their executive compensation because the "HAVE AGREEMENTS WITH THESE EXECUTIVES."

Keep defending AArrogant management greed and hope the employee morale gets worse and worse so it will have keep having a negative effect on the stock.


You also say mechanics never learn....

You're right, maybe its time for mechanics to wake up and make an "extra effort" to follow the maintenance manual.

 

[FWAAA]

Keep defending AArrogant management greed and hope the employee morale gets worse and worse so it will have keep having a negative effect on the stock.

You also say mechanics never learn....

You're right, maybe its time for mechanics to wake up and make an "extra effort" to follow the maintenance manual.

Unfortunately, the impact your collective morale has on the stock price is greatly overshadowed and outweighed by the price of oil and the demand for expensive tickets.

My sincere hope is that the hard working, honorable mechanics of AA finally get so angry that they cast off their oppressors - the worthless retards they call their union: the TWU. The TWU has screwed you for over a quarter century yet some of your posts make it seem like they first did it in 2003. We all know that's not true. According to Owens, it's been happening for more than 25 years. Do something about it already.

And then, once you replace your worthless union, take a page out of the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" book by negotiating realistic rewards in case huge profits return or in case AMR stock outperforms the stock of other airlines. Get some variable compensation in your contract. And if your negotiators tell you it can't be done, FIRE THEM as well and replace them with intelligent negotiators. Get the pay you deserve and get rewarded when times are good or when the stockholders make out.

 

[FWAAA]

What do you call threatening gloom and doom bankruptcy unless the unions agree to their demands for massive concessions while Carty and company are guaranteeing their "beneficial arrangements" for themselves?

Effective negotiation for their side, since it worked.

Realistically, Ch 11 wouldn't have mattered to the line mechanics, but it might have resulted in a lot less in-house overhaul work. IND and OAK used to be overhaul bases for another giant airline, and now that airline performs no heavy airframe overhaul in-house. The guys at TULE, MCIE and AFW were a lot more scared of Ch 11 than the line maintenance guys.

I know that Owens will argue that AA could never successfully outsource its overhaul - but then again, he argued yesterday for the umpteenth time that AA might not have filed Ch 11 either - it was all a bluff.

Had AA filed Ch 11 in 2003, it's obvious that they would have told Airbus to shove the AB6 fleet and probably would have likely rejected the leases on the leased MD-80s. Probably would have rejected leases on some 762s and maybe some 763s. Result? A fleet no larger than UAL. Probably no impact on line maintenance but potential life-changer for all the "we've got much better gigs in the wings but inertia keeps us from pursuing them" overhaul crowd.

Yeah, yeah - they partially funded their SERP, partially placing it on the same footing as your defined benefit plan. Yawn. Big deal. Lotsa outrage but you guys didn't get anything for all your indignation.

Seriously - you guys couldn't have done any worse had you not been represented. Time to throw those bums out.

 

[Hopeful]

Keep licking those boots,,,there's a promotion and raise out there just waiting for you.

So..the bankruptcy threat was a ploy that worked?

How about all line mechanics just show them how much the ploy of going by the book works?

Rather than us quitting or go on strike, we can just stay on the job and do our jobs...

 

[TWU informer]

My sincere hope is that the hard working, honorable mechanics of AA finally get so angry that they cast off their oppressors - the worthless retards they call their union: the TWU. The TWU has screwed you for over a quarter century yet some of your posts make it seem like they first did it in 2003. We all know that's not true. According to Owens, it's been happening for more than 25 years. Do something about it already.

And then, once you replace your worthless union, take a page out of the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" book by negotiating realistic rewards in case huge profits return or in case AMR stock outperforms the stock of other airlines. Get some variable compensation in your contract. And if your negotiators tell you it can't be done, FIRE THEM as well and replace them with intelligent negotiators. Get the pay you deserve and get rewarded when times are good or when the stockholders make out.

You must have missed the legacy of the National Mediation Board allowing the dead, retired, and non-classification employees on the e-list when we submitted the authorization cards for the election to remove the TWU.

During the 5 year campaign to obtain those cards, AA Management violated our rights under Federal Law to choose representation of our choice. AA Management spent over $500,000.00 defending the TWU and protecting the lap dog union.

If you would like to explain how supressed mechanics can ignite another drive to remove the TWU knowing that AA Management, The Federal Government, the AFL-CIO, and the TWU will be the enemy in the campaign, I would be all ears to hear your plan.

We have now lived under the current concessions for 6 years, and most are working two jobs to survive and you want us to take on another battle against a billion dollar lapdog defending corporation, and corrupt government that lobbiest with money rules decision making, and the union that steals 2 hours pay per month from under threat of termination that will use that money against us? Please explain how you think we should begin, battle, and finish? I would be most interested.

I for one would love to see the TWU removed from the property. Problem is, AA Management wants to keep this docile union in place and will fight us all the way. Underpaid mechanics against overpaid management sounds unfair to begin with, then you still have to add in the corrupt federal government agency with the ultimate decision on voting or not, then combine that with the 2 hour pay per month lapdog that will spend every last dime they have stolen to keep the mechanic cash cow in dues and insurance premiums filling their pockets.

I for one think the only option of this profession to survive is to resort to law breaking, civil disobedience. Even then, we need leaders with some balls and most currently stealing the dues money were actually neutered and company plants to run for office to being with.

Please detail a plan for us and I will review and get back with you ASAP.