AMFA fighting to get R&D and fueling back.

[ualdriver]

Busdrvr-

I mean I send an updated ON time while in the air approaching the airport. That way, if we're early or late, everyone knows we're going to be early or late beforehand. I realize ACARS sends it when you set the brakes and open the door, but that doesn't help the ramp guys anticipate your early/late arrival when you're at the gate already!

 

[Busdrvr]

----------------
On 7/29/2003 9:25:43 AM ualdriver wrote:

Busdrvr-

I mean I send an updated ON time while in the air approaching the airport. That way, if we're early or late, everyone knows we're going to be early or late beforehand. I realize ACARS sends it when you set the brakes and open the door, but that doesn't help the ramp guys anticipate your early/late arrival when you're at the gate already!

----------------​

Ah, which explains why you said "on" instead of "in"

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 7/24/2003 7:39:35 AM atabuy wrote:

----------------

400 x 85,000 = 34 million dollars a year that the airline will save.
That is a hefty chunk of money.

It might take a little time for the ramp to get R&D down, but eventually they will and Ual will save that money. Even if they need to hire a few more rampmen, they can help load the planes before they push back. Unlike mechanics, who do no ramp work.


----------------​

One thing wrong with your figure is that it assumes that nobody will be doing R&D and that those mechanics that did do R&D did nothing else. The head count cut from losing R&D was not as severe as maint first thought at AA but it did result in more down time for mechanics. Some of our old timers do not want R&D back, they figure that it will not drive that many heads and mean that they will have to spend more time out in the weather.

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 7/24/2003 8:53:05 PM atabuy wrote:

Yes I am retired from Ual, but it is people like you that make me keep coming back to make sure that you don't take Ual down with idiotic, moronic, positively stupid reasons.
I still depend on medical from Ual, a pension, and flight benefits. In that order.



In other words "I GOT MINE" and I want to make sure that you suckers keep it coming.
​

 

[Bob Owens]

Try writing a little bigger LGA.

The fact is when you take someone elses work more than likely it will cause resentment. For many, many years that was mechanics work, and you guys took it from us like scabs.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

----------------
On 7/29/2003 1234 PM Bob Owens wrote:


Try writing a little bigger LGA.

The fact is when you take someone elses work more than likely it will cause resentment. For many, many years that was mechanics work, and you guys took it from us like scabs.


----------------
Fleet Service was doing R&D for fifteen years before I even started here Bob.You should address your concerns with the folks that gave it away in 83 or so.I've heard from some of the older heads that the mechanics looked down on such pedestrian work and as such didn't fight for it when the company looked to take it from your group.
After the concessions the company extracted from all of us do you really think they are going to go backwards in terms of work rules and go back to maintenance R&D?
That, like the styrofoam Big Mac box is gone and it isn't coming back,no matter which union is sitting across the table from the company in a few years.
​

 

[diogenes]

Been in the business 20+ years. Never been in a station where mech does pushback. Obviously, an A&P is not necessary for this task. Also, the rampers have to be there at a/c arrival to unload the plane; might as well marshall it in - no extra costs. Rampers are there until the hatches are closed; might as well push it back - no extra costs. Meanwhile the mechs can do what they're trained for, paid for, and have a license for - inspect, service and repair the bird.

As far as quals; we've trained our newbies in pushback for years; no problems so far. I'd expect a certain segment of folks that have been rampers for years, and only NOW have the added responsibilties of pushback added to them to complain. Work Avoidance Procedure occurs everywhere, in every job.

So far as scabbing, or doing work outsides one's contract - that's a no-no. Once work is shifted around and agreed to by all parties, unfortunately, it is what it is.

JM2C.

 

[atabuy]

----------------
On 7/29/2003 12:40:15 PM Bob Owens wrote:

----------------

On 7/24/2003 8:53:05 PM atabuy wrote:
Yes I am retired from Ual, but it is people like you that make me keep coming back to make sure that you don't take Ual down with idiotic, moronic, positively stupid reasons.

I still depend on medical from Ual, a pension, and flight benefits. In that order.

 
In other words "I GOT MINE" and I want to make sure that you suckers keep it coming.
​

----------------​

Bob Bob,
You back here flaming again?
It's not I got mine. It is; I earned mine and it is being jepordized by a certain group of people who profess unity, but only think of themselves.

Our contract has language in there for retirement. You know that. Why would you write such a stupid statement?
And you represent your guys at AA. Quite a shame to call yourself a union leader.
Your attitude represents why unions have a bad name.

I am sure when your union gave up R&D you got something else for it. Money, benefits, or something else.
Then you turn around and call other union workers scabs.

Your so called professionalism as mechanics comes under scrutiny when you even suggest that R&D be part of a mechanics job, when there is no special license or schooling required to do it.
You have lost much credibility here.

You wrote:
"One thing wrong with your figure is that it assumes that nobody will be doing R&D and that those mechanics that did do R&D did nothing else. The head count cut from losing R&D was not as severe as maint first thought at AA but it did result in more down time for mechanics. Some of our old timers do not want R&D back, they figure that it will not drive that many heads and mean that they will have to spend more time out in the weather."

Bob, does it really matter if it is 5,10,15, or 20 million dollar savings. We are talking millions that go right to the profit column.
Do you really know anything about profit and loss.

Your own words state why the company fights very hard against you:

"Some of our old timers do not want R&D back, they figure that it will not drive that many heads and mean that they will have to spend more time out in the weather."

So your workers want more money to work less. Great thinking. That should keep your company in the black.

 

[wts54]

atabuy,the contract has the words pushback maybe performed by any IAM
represented employee.Scratch IAM and insert AMFA.Now it says any AMFA employee may perform pushback.UAL didnt think AMFA would win now they have and the contract belongs to us not the IAM.Next issue is fueling.Amfa has filed a Section 6 notice with the NMB
to get fueling back to the maintenence and related employees.To
bad the company and the old lapdog union tried diluting the mechanics vote by forcing
all those fuelers(really rampers) on our eligibility list.Let the games begin UAL
wont be bankrupt forever and UAL doesnt have their toy union anymore to help them.
I read at a AMFA website the company was "STUNNED" to learn we wanted r+d back.
As far as your statement about employees giving something we have over 4,000 layoff
in our group alone and thats enough.


UAL TRANSITION UPDATE
A meeting was held yesterday in Chicago with United Airlines to go over a list of issues that was presented
to them on July 14th. Attendees for AMFA were leaders of the six new locals, AMFA’s National
Executive Council (NEC), attorneys Lee Seham and Jim Dykehouse*, and Kevin McCormick from
AMFA administration. Present for the company was Vice President of Labor Relations Peter Kain,
Director of Labor Relations Al Koehler, and company attorney Jennifer Coyne. The highlights of this
meeting are outlined as follows:
The meeting started with the company congratulating AMFA for earning the right to represent the group.
They explained that some issues would take time to resolve as they have operational groups that don’t
necessarily line up with AMFA’s structure.
Bulletin Boards – The Company agrees AMFA should have immediate access to the bulletin boards.
Union Business Travel – The Company regulations allow local and national union representatives to travel
the Company’s system in conjunction with union business associated with employee representation.
EAP Program – The Company recognizes the need for the EAP program and would like to continue its
use as long as the joint effort continues.
Union Committee Offices and Phones – The Company will continue to provide office space and phone
lines. The Company has stated that they are considering reducing office sizes due to a reduced level of
membership. Our position is such changes should have occurred when the reductions in force took effect.
Any changes now would be construed as being tied to the change in representation.
Union Leave – The Company recognizes the right of AMFA designated employees to be released from
work to perform union business. There is some concern the Company may not recognize the same number
of Committee positions that the previous union utilized. Again, we would construe any reduction as being
tied directly to the change in representation.
Grievances – The Company currently has 20 grievances ready for the System Board and 300+ grievances
being processed at the 3rd step. They stated they do not have a centralized list of grievances at levels below
the 3rd step. We advised the Company it is our intention to actively pursue this backlog and schedule
arbitrations at a rate much higher than the former union’s rate of 12 per year. We will utilize our attorneys
on arbitration dates currently scheduled.
SAFETY IN THE AIR BEGINS WITH QUALITY MAINTENANCE ON THE GROUND
IRH – The Company advised us they do not maintain a system-wide list of scheduled Investigative Review
Hearings. Such hearings are handled by local management.
Letters of Agreement – The Company will provide the Association with all Letters of Agreement. The
Company did not give any clear indication of how many LOA’s exist. Local management is to provide
designated AMFA representatives with all applicable Local Letters of Agreement.
Skynet Access – The Company will advise us whether or not they will allow access to AMFA websites
via Skynet.
Dues – The Company has stated they will accept a dues check-off form. This form will allow for a payroll
deduction of union dues. (We anticipate having these forms in early August. In the event the August dues
are not deducted through payroll deduction we will distribute information regarding alternate payment
methods.)
Laid Off Employees – The Company supplied data that states there were 3937 employees in our class and
craft laid off as of July 14th.
Newly Represented Employees – There are employees in 23 separate job titles not covered by any
existing collective bargaining agreement that were entitled to vote in this election. We submitted a Section 6
Notice to the Company to advise them that we intend on negotiating language to cover these employees.
Receipt and Dispatch – We advised the Company that this issue is of great importance to our membership.
We believe it is ours and we intend to fight to keep it within our class and craft. This revelation was
deemed by the Company to be “stunningâ€. We intend to resolve this as soon as we possibly can.
Fuelers – The NMB has deemed they are a part of our class and craft. We have advised the Company
that they should either give the job to our cleaners or create a “fueler†classification that will be represented
by AMFA.
Recall Lists – We asked the Company to provide us with a list of all employees that are eligible for recall.
Outsource Vendors – The Company supplied us with a summary report of OSV activity for January-
March of this year. The next report will be available Friday. In regards to access to OSV data, the
Company advised us they would make all data available.
IAM – We asked that all IAM representatives that were on union business return to work within 30 days,
except for those instances where the employees are assisting in the transition.
Starfish LCO – The Company is still in the initial stages of planning a Low Cost Operation. They have
stated that they intend to have UAL maintenance employees maintain the aircraft.
* Jim Dykehouse was hired by the law firm Seham, Seham, Meltz and Petersen to handle membership issues related to
United Airlines. Mr. Dykehouse will be based in ORD.

 

[atabuy]

wts 54,

I think part of your package for wage reductions included R&D. Your pay will go down a little more to get these guys back.
I don't see any of you doing that. But I can be wrong. Let's see how it unfolds.

I am not sure, but if they saved 30 million and you have 8000 mechanics, it might cost you another 1.80 per hour.

Just crude numbers, and you can do your own math.