American Retirements

[cactusboy53]

Administrators: While not DIRECTLY part of our discussions, this article came out today regarding retirements at American Airlines. 111 American Airlines pilots are retiring effective YESTERDAY.

Here is the article: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/09/111-american-airlines-pilots-r.html

Here is a synopsis:

As the Allied Pilots Associations points out, 2010's average was 11 per month, with a high of 24 in August 2010. Some other factoids:

* 23 of the retiring pilots are check airmen -- the pilots who make sure other pilots are doing it right.

* 46 of the 111 were Boeing 777 captains, plus another three 777 first officers. About one in every four 777 captain based at D/FW Airport retired.

* The average age, by my calculations, was just under 61. The youngest was a Dallas-based pilot who turned 54 in August. Eight were 63. Less than 20 were under age 60. The bulk fell in the 60 to 62 bracket.

* The average seniority among the retirees, by my calculations, was 29 years. The list included three 777 captains -- one from D/FW, two from Chicago -- with 35 years' experience, and another that would have hit 35 years in October.

 

[westcoastflyer]

Administrators: While not DIRECTLY part of our discussions, this article came out today regarding retirements at American Airlines. 111 American Airlines pilots are retiring effective YESTERDAY.

Here is the article: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/09/111-american-airlines-pilots-r.html

Here is a synopsis:

As the Allied Pilots Associations points out, 2010's average was 11 per month, with a high of 24 in August 2010. Some other factoids:

* 23 of the retiring pilots are check airmen -- the pilots who make sure other pilots are doing it right.

* 46 of the 111 were Boeing 777 captains, plus another three 777 first officers. About one in every four 777 captain based at D/FW Airport retired.

* The average age, by my calculations, was just under 61. The youngest was a Dallas-based pilot who turned 54 in August. Eight were 63. Less than 20 were under age 60. The bulk fell in the 60 to 62 bracket.

* The average seniority among the retirees, by my calculations, was 29 years. The list included three 777 captains -- one from D/FW, two from Chicago -- with 35 years' experience, and another that would have hit 35 years in October.

These guys are bailing out because they realize that changes are coming soon to their retirement soon. APA is in contentious negotiations with AA management, which is seeking concessions and changes to all of the retirement programs. I don't know if a lump sum option is available, but if it is, more AA guys will continue to retire rapidly, as Delta pilots did before their pension was terminated.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't know if a lump sum option is available

Unless it changed in the 2003 concessions, the lump sum is still available.

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

They're leaving because they don't trust the market.

"As American Airlines pilots know intimately, their B Plan has an interesting feature. A pilot can lock in the value of the B Plan shares backwards for 60 days. If the shares fall sharply, they can retire and still get the shares' value from 60 days before their retirement.

The B Plan shares this summer have dropped a lot, like the entire market, and quite a few pilots decided to take their retirements now rather than hope the B Plan shares recover in value in the near future.

As more than one pilot pointed out to me in the past few weeks, a long-time pilot with a lot of money in the B Plan could have seen the value of those shares drop $200,000 or $300,000 in the past two months. They would have to work a long time just to make up in salary the amount of the decrease in their B Plan accounts.

So why not go now?

That's the B Plan, a defined-contribution plan into which American Airlines contributes an amount equal to 11 percent of a pilot's pay.

Then there's the A Plan, the pilots' defined-benefit plan. There's been a lot of pilot communication back and forth about the possibility of American filing for bankruptcy protection at some point in the future, a step that would likely result in reduced pensions and an inability to withdraw a lump sum upon retirement.

Another reason for pilots to go now rather than wait to see what happens."

 

[BoeingBoy]

Plus a lump sum payout is bigger when interest rates are low (as they are now) than when rates are higher (as they will probably be in 2-3 years. That difference alone can offset an early retirement penalty. As a point of reference, several former Braniff pilots retiring in the early 90's told me that a 1/4 point increase in interest rates cost them about $100K in their lump sum.

Jim

 

[usa1]

I heard with the retirements and the new AA aircraft order, US Airways Express can kiss half their pilots goodbye ..... any truth?

 

[BoeingBoy]

For the aircraft order, it depends on how many of them are replacements vs additions to the fleet. I think it's safe to say that the roughly 200 MD80's will be replaced, offsetting a little under half the orders.

The retirements are a different animal. While AA could pull a US - not recalling/hiring till they absolutely have to - eventually retiring pilots will have to be replaced or the operation shrunk to offset their leaving.

Jim

 

[IORFA]

AA has been recalling at least 2 classes a month. Around 30-40 pilots total a month. If you are interested APA has the info on their website. It isn't protected and open to the public. Not sure how many former AA pilots work for USX, but eventually the entire Eagle pilot seniority list will be given jobs at AA. Most of the senior guys already have seniority numbers. This can be seen on the APA website as well. I'm sure APA wouldn't mind AA recalling more pilots each month.

 

[crazystnic]

Administrators: While not DIRECTLY part of our discussions, this article came out today regarding retirements at American Airlines. 111 American Airlines pilots are retiring effective YESTERDAY.

Here is the article: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/09/111-american-airlines-pilots-r.html

Here is a synopsis:

As the Allied Pilots Associations points out, 2010's average was 11 per month, with a high of 24 in August 2010. Some other factoids:

* 23 of the retiring pilots are check airmen -- the pilots who make sure other pilots are doing it right.

* 46 of the 111 were Boeing 777 captains, plus another three 777 first officers. About one in every four 777 captain based at D/FW Airport retired.

* The average age, by my calculations, was just under 61. The youngest was a Dallas-based pilot who turned 54 in August. Eight were 63. Less than 20 were under age 60. The bulk fell in the 60 to 62 bracket.

* The average seniority among the retirees, by my calculations, was 29 years. The list included three 777 captains -- one from D/FW, two from Chicago -- with 35 years' experience, and another that would have hit 35 years in October.

YOU WOULD ONLY BE A FOOL NOT TO LEAVE EARLY FROM THEIR NOW> with the retirment in place.

 

[gabby]

I heard with the retirements and the new AA aircraft order, US Airways Express can kiss half their pilots goodbye ..... any truth?

We at express have an email from us airways that says that us airways will not hire from piedmont or Psa if it would leave those airlines short staffed.
Bottom line is if you think life is crappy at mainline, spend a month in our shoes.

 

[Bob Owens]

We at express have an email from us airways that says that us airways will not hire from piedmont or Psa if it would leave those airlines short staffed.
Bottom line is if you think life is crappy at mainline, spend a month in our shoes.

Just curious, did you see your current job as you last stop in your career or a stepping stone to the majors?

 

[gabby]

I believe most pilots at PSA want out. Except for the top 150 of 500.
Mainline us airways is now not an option for us now. 16 were hired back in 2008. They were held at PSA till this past summer and finally released to go. Of course their seniority started in 2011. Our management knows that PSA is a horrible place to work so they put handcuffs on us to keep us to stay. But all that will change when American/Delta/united start hiring again. Currently we are working under a 10 year old contract that has been amenable since June 2009. No new contract in the forseable future.

 

[Hatu]

American Asks Pilots to Defer Vacations Amid Staffing Concern

AMR Corp. (AMR)’s American Airlines asked some pilots to voluntarily delay vacations this month to ensure adequate staffing after more retirements than the carrier expected.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-07/american-asks-pilots-to-defer-vacations-amid-staffing-concern.html?cmpid=yhoo

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

American Asks Pilots to Defer Vacations Amid Staffing Concern

AMR Corp. (AMR)’s American Airlines asked some pilots to voluntarily delay vacations this month to ensure adequate staffing after more retirements than the carrier expected.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-07/american-asks-pilots-to-defer-vacations-amid-staffing-concern.html?cmpid=yhoo

As an AMT I would tell the company if asked this request: "Sure, just as soon as you give me a nonconcessionary contract with full retro AND you return all that was taken from me in 2003."

I think the company has a huge set for even asking this request. They drag their feet in negotiations and treat employees with disrespect and arrogance and now they want our help?

 

[frontline]

A lot of them are probably leaving because they can back date the stock price by two months and it has been falling for about as long. Good opportunity to cash out and save some $$.