American plans hourly flights on New York-LA route

[700UW]

NEW YORK (AP) — American Airlines plans to launch hourly shuttle service between New York and Los Angeles early next year, as it battles United and Delta on the most popular route in the U.S.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-05-01/american-plans-hourly-flights-on-new-york-la-route

 

[eolesen]

On a passenger demand basis, hourly service with the A321's makes more sense than every 90-120 minutes with a widebody. Operating costs? The A321 is lower cost, but it's a significant increase in the number of cockpit crew needed.

 

[WorldTraveler]

overkill....
between AA and UA throwing capacity into the transcons, there will be plenty of low fares and history shows that that the competitive situation doesn't ultimately change long-term.
History DOES repeat itself.

 

[robbedagain]

How is it that it takes more cockpit crew members for a 321 vs 76 using the 3 class configuration? i dont understand 2 pilots i would think 1 each in first and business for f/a and 3 in back for coach vs a 76 which i think is 5 fa in back and 1 in first and 1 in business??

 

[700UW]

More flights mean an increase of crews used.

The A321s are going to hold 102 seats in a special configuration.

A321 Transcontinental

• The First Class cabin will be outfitted with 10 fully lie-flat seats in a 1-1 configuration giving every seat direct aisle access – a feature that no other domestic airline offers.
• The Business Class cabin will be outfitted with 20 fully lie-flat seats, designed by BE, in a 2-2 configuration.
• In the Main Cabin, the seats will be designed by Recaro and arranged in a 3-3 configuration. The option to enjoy more legroom is available with 36 Main Cabin Extra seats and the aircraft also offers 36 Main Cabin seats.
• American plans to outfit the entire aircraft with seat-to-seat chat; live text news and weather updates, 3-D moving maps, airport maps, connecting gate information, and more.
• For customers traveling in the premium class cabins, a complimentary inflight entertainment selection of up to 75 movies, more than 150 TV programs, more than 350 audio selections and up to 15 games will be available on a 15.4-inch HD-capable touchscreen monitor positioned in each seat. Bose® QuietComfort® 15 Acoustic Noise Cancelling® headsets will be available.
• In Main Cabin every seatback will have an 8.9-inch HD-capable touchscreen monitor with an assortment of movies, TV programs, games and audio selections.
• American intends to take delivery of these aircraft beginning in Nov. 2013 through 2014. The A321 transcontinental aircraft will replace American's existing fleet of Boeing 767-200s and fly between New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK) and San Francisco International Airport (SFO) and JFK and Los Angeles International Airport (LAX).

 

[LGA777]

AA is making a promise to its customers in conjunction with yesterdays announcement that once implemented will likely last a week or two before going away. That is using the L2 door to board an A-321. The jetway is just to close to the number 1 engine. It can likely be done but with the occasional likely striking of the engine cowling with the jetway and taking a brand new airplane out of service for a day or two. Not aware of any A-321 operators worldwide who do this, maybe with airstairs which are very commonly used in Europe but not with a jetway, but please correct me if I am wrong. The marketing strategy is brilliant as the celebrities in First wont have the every day coach travelers ogling them as pass thru first on there way to their seats but since AA has yet to operate the A-321 they may not realize how tight it is. If this does actually get tried the AA stores departments in JFK and LAX better have plenty of extra Airbus engine cowlings in stock.

Cheers

LGA777

 

[700UW]

Those cowlings are around $550,000 and those back in 2003, we had one damage while I was at US and that was the cost then.

US's policy forbids L2 used as its an accident waiting to happen.

 

[wings396]

Not much different than the 757, which also cuts it pretty close.

 

[USFlyer]

Some European carriers use L2 at certain stations. I believe it requires a different, thinner style jetway. Perhaps AA is planning to install some of those at JFK and LAX?

 

[Thomas Paine]

How is it that it takes more cockpit crew members for a 321 vs 76 using the 3 class configuration? i dont understand 2 pilots i would think 1 each in first and business for f/a and 3 in back for coach vs a 76 which i think is 5 fa in back and 1 in first and 1 in business??

More flights.

More work for line mechanics too. Both ends are staffed with Union mechanics. More landings means more Tires and brakes.

How about hourly service to LHR too? Twice as many ETOPS! Sucks for non revving though. Sucks for Tulsa too, the loss of the old 767s means their headcount will go down even quicker.

The LAX market, like most others needs more service, flights are always pretty full.

 

[FWAAA]

Is it possible to build a jetway where the only movement is to retract away from the 2L door while remaining in a fixed position front to back? Aircraft stops on the A321 line and the jetway, exactly perpendicular to 2L, moves toward the plane? Limiting the jetway's motion like that might prevent most of the collisions with the engine, as long as the stop line is in the exact correct position AND as long as the plane is stopped precisely at the correct point. If the jetway can't move toward the nose or toward the tail of the plane, but only out toward the door, that should work. Of course, for all that to work, special dedicated gates would have to be assigned at JFK and LAX, along with new jetways.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Is it possible to build a jetway where the only movement is to retract away from the doorway while remaining in a fixed position front to back? Aircraft stops on the A321 line and the jetway, exactly perpendicular to the door of the plane, moves toward the plane? Limiting the jetway's motion like that might prevent most of the collisions with the engine, as long as the stop line is in the exact correct position AND as long as the plane is stopped at the precise point. If the jetway can't move toward the nose or toward the tail of the plane, but only out toward the door, that should work. Of course, for all that to work, special dedicated gates would have to be assigned at JFK and LAX, along with new jetways.

Sure there were gates like that. Problem is if the crew overshoots the line they cant see you have to reposition the plane with a tractor. That can take up to 1/2 a hour. What happens is as soon as he stops everyone moves in and starts doing their thing, loaders, catering etc then you have to locate a tractor and bar, get everyone clear, get all the passengers reseated and move the plane a foot or two back.

Possible, not practical.

 

[yoyodyne]

Sure there were gates like that. Problem is if the crew overshoots the line they cant see you have to reposition the plane with a tractor. That can take up to 1/2 a hour. What happens is as soon as he stops everyone moves in and starts doing their thing, loaders, catering etc then you have to locate a tractor and bar, get everyone clear, get all the passengers reseated and move the plane a foot or two back.

Possible, not practical.

Are they ordering a new tractor from S&S? Half hour seems awfully long...

 

[eolesen]

overkill....
between AA and UA throwing capacity into the transcons, there will be plenty of low fares and history shows that that the competitive situation doesn't ultimately change long-term.

I'm guessing you didn't read any of the details... AA's not adding capacity. Their seats per day each way are remaining almost flat. Read below...

How is it that it takes more cockpit crew members for a 321 vs 76 using the 3 class configuration? i dont understand 2 pilots i would think 1 each in first and business for f/a and 3 in back for coach vs a 76 which i think is 5 fa in back and 1 in first and 1 in business??

Assuming today's 9 flights per day, and an optimistic 15 flight per day on the A321 (hard to interpret "low teens" as 15, but let's follow WT's "Overkill" theory....

Projected
.....Seats.....CP......FA
A321...102......2.......4
x15...1530.....30......60

.....Seats.....CP......FA
A321...102......2.......4
x12...1224.....24......48

-------------------------
Current

.....Seats.....CP......FA
B762...168......2.......4
x09...1512.....18......63

Staying with the 15 flight a day assumption, a whopping 18 customer seats per day would be added to the market.

9 more pilot pairings would be required, and using a pessimistic cabin crewing assumption on the A321, it would drop 3 FA's. Being more optimistic (5 FA's), it would require another 12 FA's from today's staffing.

Realistically, I would see the hourly service only being practical between 0700 and 1600, plus the two overnighters, which brings it up to 12 per day.

That projection would see 288 seats come out of the market (totally screwing up WT's argument), and it would only drive 3 more pilot pairings, and remove the need for either 3 or 15 FA's.


Conventional wisdom is that he with the most frequency usually wins an inordinate amount of the business market, and when the schedule is predictable (i.e. hourly), it goes up even more.

Given only ~70 seats in the main cabin, WT's prediction of heavy discounting isn't very likely to me...

 

[kirkpatrick]

Projected
.....Seats.....CP......FA
A321...102......2.......4
x15...1530.....30......60

.....Seats.....CP......FA
A321...102......2.......4
x12...1224.....24......48

-------------------------
Current

.....Seats.....CP......FA
B762...168......2.......4
x09...1512.....18......63

I'm having a little trouble with these FA numbers. The current staffing on the -200 is 9; two up front with 10 pax, 3 in business with 30, and 4 in the back with 128. The 763 bids 7; 3 up front with 30 seats and 4 in the back with 188.

I've seen no plans for what staffing levels on the A321 will be, but 1+1+2 won't cut it unless the service is significantly abbreviated.

I think that the combination of brand new airplanes with state of the art entertainment, frequency of service, and 3 class service with lie-flats in the premium cabins will give us the best product hands down. And half the 76 coach seats will be MCE, leaving only a handful of knee-banging sardine seats.

MK