American Airlines Size

[AmericanSkies]

Hello,

I fly with American out of SFO and have watched the airline shrink in the Bay Area. I am just wondering where American Airlines ranks now in terms of airline size based on RPMs. When American took over TWA I remember how proud the airline seemed to say it was the world's largest airline, finally taking the spot from its rival United. Where does American stand now in light of the United, Delta, and proposed Southwest merger? Could USAirways overtake American in terms of size in the next decade? Thanks for any information. As a SFO based frequent traveler I may look into flying United with the cutbacks from American, but I do enjoy American's F-class meal service.

AmericanSkies

 

[FA Mikey]

AA revenues 19,917,000
US revenues 10,458,000


AA RPM 122,418,000
US RPM 57,889,000

AA AVBL seat miles 151,774,000
US AVBL seat miles 70,725.000

With the latest SWA combo USair will be pushed to position 6 in terns of size.

 

[BoeingBoy]

With the latest SWA combo USair will be pushed to position 6 in terns of size.

Won't US be 5th once the UA/CO and WN/FL mergers are complete. The order should then be (assuming no significant new mergers): UA, DL, AA (or WN depending on the yardstick), the other of the two, US.

Jim

 

[paul1]

from dallasnews blog

Take a look, and see if anything surprises you.

Operating revenues (millions)
United/Continental $16,279
Delta $15,016
AMR (American) $10,742
Southwest/AirTran $7,104
US Airways $5,821
JetBlue $1,809
Alaska $1,806


Operating income (millions)
Delta $920
United/Continental $781
Southwest/AirTran $488
US Airways $361
JetBlue $136
Alaska $136
AMR (American) -$102


Net income (millions)
United/Continental $278
US Airways $235
Delta $211
Southwest/AirTran $123
Alaska $64
JetBlue $29
AMR (American) -$516


Revenue passengers carried (thousands)
Southwest/AirTran 63,184
Delta 53,411
United/Continental 47,795
American 42,347
US Airways 25,356
JetBlue 11,609
Alaska 7,811


Revenue passenger miles (thousands)
United/Continental 89,086,000
Delta 79,928,634
American 60,916,000
Southwest/AirTran 46,960,083
US Airways 28,583,000
JetBlue 13,596,000
Alaska 9,544,000


Available seat miles (thousands)
United/Continental 107,389,000
Delta 96,252,429
American 75,259,000
Southwest/AirTran 60,034,400
US Airways 35,019,000
JetBlue 17,112,000
Alaska 11,653,000


Employees (including regionals) Total
Delta 81,916
United/Continental 81,685
AMR (American) 78,300
Southwest/AirTran 42,719
US Airways 30,860
Alaska 11,717
JetBlue 10,906


Fleet Mainline
Delta 733
United/Continental 697
Southwest/AirTran 682
American 619
US Airways 345
JetBlue 151
Alaska 116

 

[BoeingBoy]

It's not surprising, but the employee numbers don't count non-owned regional partners. So a carrier that contracts out most of it's regional feed, like US, is reported as having less employees than it actually takes to produce the ASM's, RPM's, etc.

Jim

 

[737823]

I imagine AA has the lowest revenue per employee which is one measure of productivity in the financial world.
AA: $136,147.02
UA+CO: $199,289,96
DL: $183,309.73

AA's payroll needs to drop significantly and they should contract out more work to third parties. I agree with Jim's point that Eagle is wholly-owned by AMR, but last time I checked Comair, Pinnacle, and Mesaba are wholly owned by Delta Air Lines Inc. They have entered into a sale agreement for Pinnacle and Mesaba however the sale hasn't closed yet.

AA desperately needs to cross-train employees and combine redundant positions. For example, Delta ticket agents at BOS (which is a larger DL station) assist at the gates during slow periods at the counter and vice versa. I also seem to see many AA ramp workers loitering in the terminal while DL and CO have fewer people on duty and they are mainly contractors.

Why does AA overstaff some flights? BOS-SFO on 757 has 5 FAs while they are only required 4; BOS-LAX on 738 (16F/128Y) has 4 FAs as examples. I flew LAX-LHR last summer and sat across from a 3rd pilot on 1A to relieve for duty rest. Is this third position necessary? I know the FAA has stipulations but why occupy a Flagship suite (lost revenue) and a third pilot pay PLUS layover expenses and per diem. Delta transatlantic only takes one (1) business class seat on 767s because they are able to get the required sleep even with a passenger next to them! Brilliant! Something APA members can't do aparently.

Josh

 

[Maark767]

I imagine AA has the lowest revenue per employee which is one measure of productivity in the financial world.
AA: $136,147.02
UA+CO: $199,289,96
DL: $183,309.73

AA's payroll needs to drop significantly and they should contract out more work to third parties. I agree with Jim's point that Eagle is wholly-owned by AMR, but last time I checked Comair, Pinnacle, and Mesaba are wholly owned by Delta Air Lines Inc. They have entered into a sale agreement for Pinnacle and Mesaba however the sale hasn't closed yet.

AA desperately needs to cross-train employees and combine redundant positions. For example, Delta ticket agents at BOS (which is a larger DL station) assist at the gates during slow periods at the counter and vice versa. I also seem to see many AA ramp workers loitering in the terminal while DL and CO have fewer people on duty and they are mainly contractors.

Why does AA overstaff some flights? BOS-SFO on 757 has 5 FAs while they are only required 4; BOS-LAX on 738 (16F/128Y) has 4 FAs as examples. I flew LAX-LHR last summer and sat across from a 3rd pilot on 1A to relieve for duty rest. Is this third position necessary? I know the FAA has stipulations but why occupy a Flagship suite (lost revenue) and a third pilot pay PLUS layover expenses and per diem. Delta transatlantic only takes one (1) business class seat on 767s because they are able to get the required sleep even with a passenger next to them! Brilliant! Something APA members can't do aparently.

Josh

737-800 Holds 16/144 which require 4 F/As and 757 Holds 22/166 and requires 5 sometimes 6 F/As . Trust me AA does NOT overstaff its airplanes . And for the third Pilot on LHR..... Go Union !!!!!!

 

[Winglet]

I imagine AA has the lowest revenue per employee which is one measure of productivity in the financial world.
AA: $136,147.02
UA+CO: $199,289,96
DL: $183,309.73

AA's payroll needs to drop significantly and they should contract out more work to third parties. I agree with Jim's point that Eagle is wholly-owned by AMR, but last time I checked Comair, Pinnacle, and Mesaba are wholly owned by Delta Air Lines Inc. They have entered into a sale agreement for Pinnacle and Mesaba however the sale hasn't closed yet.

AA desperately needs to cross-train employees and combine redundant positions. For example, Delta ticket agents at BOS (which is a larger DL station) assist at the gates during slow periods at the counter and vice versa. I also seem to see many AA ramp workers loitering in the terminal while DL and CO have fewer people on duty and they are mainly contractors.

Why does AA overstaff some flights? BOS-SFO on 757 has 5 FAs while they are only required 4; BOS-LAX on 738 (16F/128Y) has 4 FAs as examples. I flew LAX-LHR last summer and sat across from a 3rd pilot on 1A to relieve for duty rest. Is this third position necessary? I know the FAA has stipulations but why occupy a Flagship suite (lost revenue) and a third pilot pay PLUS layover expenses and per diem. Delta transatlantic only takes one (1) business class seat on 767s because they are able to get the required sleep even with a passenger next to them! Brilliant! Something APA members can't do aparently.

Josh

And if the FAA, in conjunction with the ATA gets their way, pilots will be coerced into flying longer hours and more fatigued. Enjoy that thought.

 

[777flyer]

737-800 Holds 16/144 which require 4 F/As and 757 Holds 22/166 and requires 5 sometimes 6 F/As . Trust me AA does NOT overstaff its airplanes . And for the third Pilot on LHR..... Go Union !!!!!!

Get the staffing right: FAA requires 1 F/A per 50 seats. The 757, as you say, has 22/166. That is 188 seats. Only 4 F/A's are required on this aircraft. 4, that's it. The only AA aircraft that flies well over the FAA minimum is the 767-200. Becasue it has 3 class service it needs 9 to do the job.

 

[737823]

737-800 Holds 16/144 which require 4 F/As and 757 Holds 22/166 and requires 5 sometimes 6 F/As . Trust me AA does NOT overstaff its airplanes . And for the third Pilot on LHR..... Go Union !!!!!!

Look at a 737-800 seat map. Some are configured with 148 seats; per 1:50 ratio only 3 FAs are required. I take AA 264 LAX-BOS 2x/month and we always have 4 FAs; 2 in F and 2 in Y. One in F would be plenty and the other two in Y. 757 has 188 seats; again only 4 required per FAA.

Why would AA overstaff other thank for JFK routes?

Josh

 

[Maark767]

Get the staffing right: FAA requires 1 F/A per 50 seats. The 757, as you say, has 22/166. That is 188 seats. Only 4 F/A's are required on this aircraft. 4, that's it. The only AA aircraft that flies well over the FAA minimum is the 767-200. Becasue it has 3 class service it needs 9 to do the job.

Yes you are right, we staff our 757s with 4 F/As and 5 is the extra sometimes and 6 is added on Int'l flights to Europe.

 

[Veritas]

Look at a 737-800 seat map. Some are configured with 148 seats; per 1:50 ratio only 3 FAs are required. I take AA 264 LAX-BOS 2x/month and we always have 4 FAs; 2 in F and 2 in Y.

All the 738s scheduled for the BOS-LAX route and just about all that fly in and our of ORD are configured at 16/144. The old 16/132 configuration is rapidly being phased out as the 738 fleet is being converted to the new denser seating capacity.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Why would AA overstaff other thank for JFK routes?

As the new 737's requiring 4 FA's are delivered and the older ones converted to the new configuration, the company ran into operational difficulties with the 2 types. If a 3-FA airplane dropped off a crew to layover and the next day a 4-FA airplane came in to take the crew out, they'd be short by 1 and the flight couldn't go. Rather than face the hassle of trying to track each airplane and deadhead people around the system for this sort of thing, the company chose to go to staffing of 4 on all 737's on Oct 1 of this year. It won't last long as all older aircraft will be reconfigured.

The company puts a 5th FA on many longer routes because there is more food available in coach and the service can take a really long time to complete. With two FA's on a cart serving 166 pax, you run out of things halfway through and one continually has to go back to the galley to replenish. The first people served can sit with trash in front of them for well over an hour. Having the extra is a great help on these flights.

With 166 coach seats and 2 FA's, there is 1 FA for 83 pax. Compare this to 4 FA's serving 128 in coach on the 767-200 and 4 serving 195 on the 767-300.

MK

 

[FWAAA]

737823 (Josh) doesn't realize that FA staffing decisions are not solely within the province of AA management. AA transcons generally feature better meal service than other airlines (although others are playing catch-up in an attempt to take away premium transcon business) and thus must feature more than the FAA-minimum crew. If AA were to eliminate an FA position, it would violate the FA contract and a grievance would result. Anybody remember the 777 arbitration resulting from the short-staffing? Some of the service cutbacks to F and J meals have been a direct result of AA attempting to avoid another "overworked" FA grievance.

AA isn't overstaffing its flights with too many FAs. And the FA staffing levels aren't the cause of AA's labor cost disadvantage. Part of the problem is too many FAs flying too few hours yet flying enough hours to qualify for benefits, like medical insurance. If FAs flew more hours on average, there would be fewer FAs and thus, fewer FAs on the medical insurance roster. Lots of $$$ savings right there. Enough money to give the remaining FAs a raise plus cost savings for AA. Everyone wins except the FAs who like being an FA on what amounts to a part-time basis. (That "flexibility" that everyone so reveres.)

 

[Imjustsayin]

737823 (Josh) doesn't realize that FA staffing decisions are not solely within the province of AA management. AA transcons generally feature better meal service than other airlines (although others are playing catch-up in an attempt to take away premium transcon business) and thus must feature more than the FAA-minimum crew. If AA were to eliminate an FA position, it would violate the FA contract and a grievance would result. Anybody remember the 777 arbitration resulting from the short-staffing? Some of the service cutbacks to F and J meals have been a direct result of AA attempting to avoid another "overworked" FA grievance.

AA isn't overstaffing its flights with too many FAs. And the FA staffing levels aren't the cause of AA's labor cost disadvantage. Part of the problem is too many FAs flying too few hours yet flying enough hours to qualify for benefits, like medical insurance. If FAs flew more hours on average, there would be fewer FAs and thus, fewer FAs on the medical insurance roster. Lots of $$$ savings right there. Enough money to give the remaining FAs a raise plus cost savings for AA. Everyone wins except the FAs who like being an FA on what amounts to a part-time basis. (That "flexibility" that everyone so reveres.)

I get the desire to have flexibility" in ones work schedule, but not working at your company at all and still having access to medical insurance and travel benfits (?) is absurd and no doubt costly. I know of at least one pilot who "works" for American and who does very little flying because he has another business of his own. I'm not sure how that happens, but all his medical costs must get spread across the folks who do work.