American Airlines makes a move to dominate at LAX

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

According to delta.com, the 757-200's that DL operates seat 168-182.  Their 757-300's seat 224-234.
 
I'll leave the job of spinning the faulty math to WT ............................................................

 
He sure doesn't disappoint:
 
 

DL does in fact have a 234 seat 757; that is the configuration of the reconfigured 753s. so, yes, I HYPERBOLED to the tune of 6 seats.

DL is reconfiguring domestic 752s that remain in the fleet to 199 or 200 seats.
 

 
Nice spin.
 
First of all, you didn't discriminate between a 757-200 or 757-300.  Also you didn't say anything about a soon to be reconfigured to 199 or 200 seats B757.
You said DL is going to annihilate other carriers in LAX by using their "757s (which come in 240 and 200 seat versions)".
 
Instead of writting a 500-word post trying somehow to prove you were correct (you weren't) and fabricating a new airline performance metric (average # of seats/departure), it would have been much more easier to say something like "Oopps" or "sorry my mistake" when talking about the capacity of a 757.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Yes, DL will dominate LAX with their grand total of 16 (count em, 16!) 757-300s, which Whole Truth will announce will be based in LA immediately, not doing MCO-ATL anymore.

WT would make a terrible ATC controller, apparently unable to make a distinction between a "heavy" 753 and a standard 752

 

[WorldTraveler]

Hyperbole is the best thing ever!

...And accuracy is king...

 
you better believe it which is why I posted the actual numbers of seats per flight and the percentages.

is it equally accurate for you to note that DL and UA both have the 753 in their fleets which is a major part of the reason why their mainline seats/dept. is higher than AA's?

Considering the low-density, high-frequency A321T operates largely out of LAX, average seats per flight sounds like a metric that only paints some of the picture. Remember, there's only 102 seats on board those LuxuryLiners.

and since those 321Ts use the same amount of gate space as a 757, it absolutely matters to note that AA by its strategic decisions is using aircraft that do not move anywhere near as much revenue or passengers per flight - and require more gates.

all of the hyperbole about all of the gates that AA will operate is dwarfed by the reality that other carriers do a better job of using their assets to push passengers thru the airport than AA does.

 
 

He sure doesn't disappoint:
 
 
 
Nice spin.
 
First of all, you didn't discriminate between a 757-200 or 757-300.  Also you didn't say anything about a soon to be reconfigured to 199 or 200 seats B757.
You said DL is going to annihilate other carriers in LAX by using their "757s (which come in 240 and 200 seat versions)".
 
Instead of writting a 500-word post trying somehow to prove you were correct (you weren't) and fabricating a new airline performance metric (average # of seats/departure), it would have been much more easier to say something like "Oopps" or "sorry my mistake" when talking about the capacity of a 757.

except the OOPS is YOURS, not mine.

DL operates 752s in both the transcon/intl config and the domestic config as well as 753s.

the 753s are already getting more seats added to them. The 752 domestics will get them soon.

DL operates 14 767 flights/day from LAX with an average seats/dept of 235 seats. AA operates 4 with an average seats/dept. of 218. UA operates none based on the current schedule.

looking at all widebodies, DL operates 16 flts/day - equal to AA and UA combined.

so, feel free to talk about the gate advantage AA will supposedly have.

airports exist to move passengers. DL does a better job of doing that per gate than any other carrier at LAX and DL is enhancing its ability to move more passengers per flight with the addition of and reconfiguring of more large domestic aircraft to its fleet.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

DL operates 752s in both the transcon/intl config and the domestic config as well as 753s.

the 753s are already getting more seats added to them. The 752 domestics will get them soon.
 

 
It would be wise for you, if you ever want to have even a sliver of credibility to stop spinning.
Nobody was mentioning anything about trasncon/intl configs.
 
Here are your exact words: 
"757s (which come in 240 and 200 seat versions)".
 
DL does not operate 200 seat 757-200s or 240 seat B757-300s.
http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/airports-and-aircraft/Aircraft.html
 
There is your WholeTruth!
 
Granted you were almost spot-on with the 757-300 capacity, but in your zeal to glorify DL over-stated their 757-200 capacity, then tried to save face by claiming you were talking about soon-to-be reconfigured 757s.  You didn't even mention it until you were told you were wrong.  Even now, you still can't say "Ooops, my mistake"  and move on.  You're pathetic!

 

[737823]

DL has a small number of 757-300s (from NWA), and they are largely used on high density ATL-FL routes not even sure they regularly serve LAX. While the CASM on the 753 maybe attractive there is a reason Boeing got very few orders for the 753 (and 764) despite WTs constant praise of these niche fleet types and AAs disadvantage for not operating them.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA doesn't operate the number of gates that MAH says they will.

DL WILL operate 199 or 200 seat 752s at LAX far before AA gets the huge gate advantage that some here think is coming.

what you can't stand is being shown that yet another strategic decision by AA has left them being less efficient than other airlines.

you can nitpick on the timing of when the 199/200 seat 757s enter service but it doesn't change that DL uses larger aircraft at LAX on both a consolidated (mainline/regional carrier) basis as well as for mainline only, the number of seats per aircraft will only grow, and as DL continues to have a growth rate at LAX that is higher than AA or UA - or any other carrier at LAX.

I'm tickled pink that AA is growing at LAX.

what you can't argue against as much as you want to take pages and pages to do so it that other carriers will grow and they will use their resources more efficiently, including being able to convert far more departures to mainline than AA can.

and as much as Q wants to think otherwise, all the gates in the world won't make a hill of beans worth of difference if AA has to deal with toxic labor relations which appears to be more and more a given as one workgroup after another finds out that all of the loyalty that they showed to Parker to get the merger passed will only result in more limitations on getting decent contracts.

US was very profitable but did it on the backs of the lowest paid employees in the industry - and US also had some of the lowest yields in the most competitive markets.

employees simply don't care if they do anything to help the company if they don't get rewarded for their efforts.

LA is far too competitive of a market for AA to think that any amount of gates will make a difference if they have tens of thousands of ticked off employees.

Josh,
the CASM on the 753 is NOT MAYBE attractive. It IS attractive. The 753s is the lowest CASM aircraft in the US carrier fleet.

and, the 753 is only more active in Florida in the winter. MCO is the biggest non-spoke station for the 753 in terms of numbers of flights but MCO amounts to less than 20% of 753 departures. LAX, HNL, and SFO all have significant amounts of 753 traffic, esp. in the summer. even so, currently DL has 3 753 flights/day from LAX... a 753 carries more than twice the number of seats as the 321Ts.

BTW, UA's usage of the 753 is not unlike DL's - although UA's are even more concentrated to hub to hub routes.

and regardless of how you like or dislike DL's use of the 753, DL and UA have them and AA doesn't. Further, DL's use of 757s of all types as well as widebodies is precisely why DL has an average number of seats/dept. advantage over AA.

given that AA won't ever have 753s and is indeed retiring 757s at a faster rate than DL - who is also getting 321s and 739s - the chances are very good that DL should have no problem maintaining its average seats per dept. advantage over AA.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

DL has a small number of 757-300s (from NWA), and they are largely used on high density ATL-FL routes not even sure they regularly serve LAX. 

 
I believe DL uses them for LAX-HNL, which sounds like a flight I would rather eat glass than endure.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I believe DL uses them for LAX-HNL, which sounds like a flight I would rather eat glass than endure.

because AA's 10 757 flights/day to Hawaii are so much more comfortable?

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Josh,
the CASM on the 753 is NOT MAYBE attractive. It IS attractive. The 753s is the lowest CASM aircraft in the US carrier fleet.
 

 
And yet only 55 were sold/delivered.
I guess all the fleet planners at airlines all over the world are a bunch of morons for not ordering the 757-300.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

and as much as Q wants to think otherwise, all the gates in the world won't make a hill of beans worth of difference if AA has to deal with toxic labor relations which appears to be more and more a given as one workgroup after another finds out that all of the loyalty that they showed to Parker to get the merger passed will only result in more limitations on getting decent contracts.

US was very profitable but did it on the backs of the lowest paid employees in the industry - and US also had some of the lowest yields in the most competitive markets.

employees simply don't care if they do anything to help the company if they don't get rewarded for their efforts.

 
There you go again, insisting that AA employees aren't being compensated fairly, yet also insistent that AA's labor costs aren't competitive compared to its peers. You can't even pick a single anti-AA agenda, you go for "all of the above" even then they contradict eachother.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

 
I believe DL uses them for LAX-HNL, which sounds like a flight I would rather eat glass than endure.

 

because AA's 10 757 flights/day to Hawaii are so much more comfortable?

 
I would guess it's because of the ~50 more people DLs 753 seats (compared to AA B752)  on a 5.75 hr flight in a single-aisle plane over the Pacific.
 
PS.  this is where grasping a statistic like your breathtaking # of seats/departure might be useful ... ... ...

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

because AA's 10 757 flights/day to Hawaii are so much more comfortable?

 
I was talking about working the 753. There is a reason DL crew call it the "slave ship."

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

 
 
I would guess it's because of the ~50 more people DLs 753 seats (compared to AA B752)  on a 5.75 hr flight in a single-aisle plane over the Pacific.
 
PS.  this is where grasping a statistic like your breathtaking # of seats/departure might be useful ... ... ...

 
Exactly. WT has a poor grasp of seat numbers when it comes to 757s..

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

There you go again, insisting that AA employees aren't being compensated fairly, yet also insistent that AA's labor costs aren't competitive compared to its peers. You can't even pick a single anti-AA agenda, you go for "all of the above" even then they contradict eachother.

 
Whatever helps the DL rules the world narrative.
 
BTW:  did anybody notice how the topic of AA at LAX turned into a DL is still better in every way possible.  Again.

 

[WorldTraveler]

wow... 3 responses to one post of mine.

I guess you are trying to avoid facing the reality of your labor situation - which I had nothing to do with except tell you what was coming.
 

And yet only 55 were sold/delivered.
I guess all the fleet planners at airlines all over the world are a bunch of morons for not ordering the 757-300.

 
that's your suggestion, not mine.

doesn't change that it is the lowest cost aircraft in the US carrier fleet. 

There you go again, insisting that AA employees aren't being compensated fairly, yet also insistent that AA's labor costs aren't competitive compared to its peers. You can't even pick a single anti-AA agenda, you go for "all of the above" even then they contradict eachother.

and here you go again failing to understand the difference between individual compensation and total labor costs.

it's no wonder AA mgmt. has such a field day with labor when it has activists like you who don't understand key labor concepts.

AA - and any company's mgmt. - wants the lowest costs possible.

AA labor should be shooting for the highest compensation per employee.

if you understand these principles, there should be no contradiction.

the fact that you clearly don't know the issues is why AA employees will be frustrated by watching their peers at other airlines make more money even while AA's total labor costs will be higher for the same amount of revenue generated.

 
 

I was talking about working the 753. There is a reason DL crew call it the "slave ship."

I'm sure you were. and didn't you also tell us that your DL boyfriend ditched you for someone else?

fair disclosure might be appropriate.

and DL employees - esp. FAs - enjoy higher compensation that do those at AA - esp. after this disastrous weekend, so "slave" is far from accurate.

frugal,
it was Q who inserted the notion of labor issues into the discussion of LAX gates. Take up your disgust with him.