Always Remember

[Tex-Mech]

They elected me and I work for them.

Could you get some bids open for DFW because I've never heard that before at the rock.

 

[FWAAA]

24100 employees gone, at a conservative figure of $60000/worker that comes out to $1446000000, $1.4 billion just in lost jobs. Like I said $1.8 billion was an understatement.

The numbers contained in the 10-Ks does not agree with your assertions.

AA's FTE at the end of 2002 (prior to the concessions) was 97,800 and at the end of 2004 (by then all planned concession-related job cuts had happened) was 79,400, a difference of 18,400 FTE jobs. Given that AMR disclosed in 2003 that those job cuts would save the company about $800 million a year, the $1.8 billion looks accurate to me. Of the 18,400, not all that many were pilots and mechanics. Many were agents, fleet and FAs, whose average wages well below $60k.

AA's FTE has dipped to 70,900 as of the end of 2008, but that doesn't support your allegation that the concessions saved AA more than $1.8 billion from 2003-2008.

 

[BigMac]

Thanks Ken,
We need this in TULE desperately.

 

[Boomer]

2) A fundamental violation of my civil rights is the demand that a term and condition of my employment with any RLA covered entity is conditioned on Union Membership given the courts ruling or payment under the agency-fee rulings under the closed shop provisions of the RLA. Prior to the Federal Courts ruling on the NWA Flight Attendants, the status quo was the primary enforcement of a balance of powers between labor and management in entities covered by the RLA: absent that balance, the requirement of Union Membership and/or the payment to a Union of any amount of my wages is taxation without representation.

Well not really. The company enterred into a contract with the union and agreed that certain work would only be accomplished by members of that union. I dont know of any civil right that entitles you to employment with a private employer or that bars an company from enterring into a contract with a single supplier of labor. I agree that democratization, accountability and transparancy are needed and that the labor movement needs a major overhaul but I dispute the notion that labor unions dont have the right to negotiate contracts that state that all workers doing work covered under a contract must be done by members. Its no different than when Busweiser negotiates a deal with Madisin Square Garden that they will only sell their products and not a competitors.

Bob,
When the Union, TWU, is prevented by the Federal Courts from self-help after a Bankruptcy Court Imposed Contract, as were the NWA Flight Attendants: how can you state that those jobs were Union Protected? As long as this ruling stands, any RLA covered entity can file for Sect. 1113 of the Bankruptcy Code and abrogate any Union Agreement while still retaining the requierement that all covered menebers of the closed shop Union must remit a portion of their wages as a condition of employment.

You have already agreed that the Unions will do so....

 

[Hopeful]

I tell you what, forget about self help. Stay on the job follow the book to the letter, drive them to bottom of the DOT rankings, drive the stock down,,,,,,,,
Nothing illegal about going by the book.

Stop complaining and predicting and wishing and hoping.
GO BY THE BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[eolesen]

I dispute the notion that labor unions dont have the right to negotiate contracts that state that all workers doing work covered under a contract must be done by members. Its no different than when Busweiser negotiates a deal with Madisin Square Garden that they will only sell their products and not a competitors.

If you want to have an exclusivity clause, you need to be priced competitively with the lowest priced producer of similar quality, or otherwise show that you provide added value.

You seem to be in denial that what you gave up in 2003 (or 1989, or 1983, whatever) is old news, water under the bridge, closing the door after the horses ran out, or whatever you want to call it. That negotiation is long over. Done. Finit.

Budweiser can't just go into MSG and ask for a 15% price increase because they gave them a 30% price break five years ago, nor can they realistically expect to be able to get that 15% price increase just because MSG started to be profitable after that 30% price break. If they tried, the Budweiser logos would be replaced with Coors or Miller in a NY minute.

 

[Hopeful]

You seem to be in denial that what you gave up in 2003 (or 1989, or 1983, whatever) is old news, water under the bridge, closing the door after the horses ran out, or whatever you want to call it. That negotiation is long over. Done. Finit.

Like I said....GO BY THE BOOK!

 

[Boomer]

If you want to have an exclusivity clause, you need to be priced competitively with the lowest priced producer of similar quality, or otherwise show that you provide added value.
You seem to be in denial that what you gave up in 2003 (or 1989, or 1983, whatever) is old news, water under the bridge, closing the door after the horses ran out, or whatever you want to call it. That negotiation is long over. Done. Finit.
Budweiser can't just go into MSG and ask for a 15% price increase because they gave them a 30% price break five years ago, nor can they realistically expect to be able to get that 15% price increase just because MSG started to be profitable after that 30% price break. If they tried, the Budweiser logos would be replaced with Coors or Miller in a NY minute.

______________________________________________________________________
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Well not really. The company enterred into a contract with the union and agreed that certain work would only be accomplished by members of that union. I dont know of any civil right that entitles you to employment with a private employer or that bars an company from enterring into a contract with a single supplier of labor. I agree that democratization, accountability and transparancy are needed and that the labor movement needs a major overhaul but I dispute the notion that labor unions dont have the right to negotiate contracts that state that all workers doing work covered under a contract must be done by members. Its no different than when Busweiser negotiates a deal with Madisin Square Garden that they will only sell their products and not a competitors.

Eolesen,
I’ll reply given that your reponse to Bob was based on my question to him.

What neither of you addressed was that your reply was to a free market among all of the suppliers, servicers and customers to a market reasonably conducted outside the rubric of the RLA.

The raison d’etra of the RLA was legislative continuation of the services by covered entities under the prolonged continuation of labor negotiations that were exclusively conducted within the Federal Government.

During these prolonged negotiations, the last Collective Bargained Agreement, CBA, remained in place.

Bankruptcy Code Sect. 1113 has allowed the providers of services to the National Airspace System, NAS, to bypass the RLA as evidenced by the Federal Court Ruling with respect to the NWA Flight Attendandts.

The Air-Carriers now have a legal avenue for bypassing the RLA through the Bankruptcy Courts.

The legislative rationale for requiring workers under the RLA to be forced to pay Union or Agency Dues to any Labor Union, is, in my opinion based on the fact that only the Executive Branch and/or Congress (be it by action or inaction) could dictate the terms of a CBA governed by the RLA. The continuation of service was predicated on the continuation of the terms and agreements within the Union Members CBA. The forced solicitation of dues was a by-product of the continuation of the CBA and the costs of negotiations so that the Unions could maintain funding at the same rate the companies could continue to earn the revenue produced through Union effort.

Absent that rationale, the closed shop provisions of the RLA for the forced payment of members dues are a direct form of taxation without representation.

Thusly one of the following provisions of the RLA must be eliminated: the closed-shop provisions of the RLA, airline coverage under the RLA or the entire RLA.

 

[aamechntx]

Lets just do away with the RLA. Then we can work on eliminating the IRS. Good luck with both. Hopeful makes a great point advising us worker bees to follow the guidelines with which we are supposed to adhere too anyway. Work by the book! Of coarse all TWU represented employees would have to do this to have the greatest impact.

 

[skydrol]

I suppose I am too simple minded to understand the "big picture". Most folks blame the company,government,judges or whatever for our poor contract. Heck we elected new leadership in our locals system wide and now somehow the TWU has become a accountable democratic union. I have seen no constitutional changes possibly I missed the flyer? Talk about strike, now blaming the government for that one is funny I guess nobody thought about looking in our crappy contract and glanced at article 33 no strike no lockout. In case you do not know the TWU gave up our right to strike a long time ago setting us up for disaster if we follow the procedures in the RLA for striking. I would like to see a video made with Little replacing Hall "same as the old boss" "we wont be fooled again" now that was funny. Show the wages and perks of the international leaders it would be just about the same as this video. All together now we chant "Kumbia"

 

[TWU informer]

I suppose I am too simple minded to understand the "big picture". Most folks blame the company,government,judges or whatever for our poor contract. Heck we elected new leadership in our locals system wide and now somehow the TWU has become a accountable democratic union. I have seen no constitutional changes possibly I missed the flyer?

It is amazing! Most Anti-TWU Advocates got elected to the TWU Locals and now the TWU has no blame in our situation.

It is now Tulsa Based Employees, AA Management, Government, and Bonus Awards.

I still see the problem the same. The TWU is sold out to the company within the Appointed Leadership and nothing has changed just because a few dissidents were elected to Local Office. I bet they even have grandios ideas about changes at the TWU International Convention. I got news for you fellows, far more organized change advocates have failed before you at change from within. You know it, you have seen the documented proof yourself, and you are not going to fix this union from within.

Go ahead, enjoy your extra pay credit for being elected, but please stop the charade and blame, you sound just like TeAAm TWU leaders from the AMFA Drive days.

 

[The Goose]

It is amazing! Most Anti-TWU Advocates got elected to the TWU Locals and now the TWU has no blame in our situation.

It is now Tulsa Based Employees, AA Management, Government, and Bonus Awards.

I still see the problem the same. The TWU is sold out to the company within the Appointed Leadership and nothing has changed just because a few dissidents were elected to Local Office. I bet they even have grandios ideas about changes at the TWU International Convention. I got news for you fellows, far more organized change advocates have failed before you at change from within. You know it, you have seen the documented proof yourself, and you are not going to fix this union from within.

Go ahead, enjoy your extra pay credit for being elected, but please stop the charade and blame, you sound just like TeAAm TWU leaders from the AMFA Drive days.

You have to admit it's rather comical.

Starting with Steve Luis, who flatly denied any affiliation with or support of AMFA once upon a time (even though many say he was passing out cards) falling into lockstep with the company, as are the balance of the twits in the "higher" union positions.

What do they promise them? If not promises, are the local officers being threatened by the International with a visit from Guido and Vido referring to broken bones? At any rate the turncoats are amusing.

 

[JimJimmyJim]

The problem is AMFA can't get in the door at AA. It's been tried and failed and probably won't get another chance. The locally elected officials at 565 are trying to do what they can from within. Some on these threads would rather moan about others trying than actually stepping up and doing what they can.

 

[eolesen]

Thusly one of the following provisions of the RLA must be eliminated: the closed-shop provisions of the RLA, airline coverage under the RLA or the entire RLA.

I'm in 100% agreement. Any one of those modifications would eliminate a lot of the posturing that goes on from both sides.

 

[TWU informer]

You have to admit it's rather comical.

Starting with Steve Luis, who flatly denied any affiliation with or support of AMFA once upon a time (even though many say he was passing out cards) falling into lockstep with the company, as are the balance of the twits in the "higher" union positions.

What do they promise them? If not promises, are the local officers being threatened by the International with a visit from Guido and Vido referring to broken bones? At any rate the turncoats are amusing.

To my vast knowledge of the AMFA Drive including access to organizers and the signed card database, Steve Luis was never an AMFA supporter or organizer, and was called a company man by incumbent union officers both times he has ran for office, the one he didnt win and the one he did win. I think it is clear that he is either and very huge coward or he is a company plant elected to office.