ALPA Pension Solution --- Suggestions?

[N628AU]

This whole pension debate on this board has turned into us vs. them, and we are starting to lose focus. Many are saying Dave is either greedy or reneging on a promise.
Let me post this: Does anyone have a proposal for a solution to make everyone happy? We must all agree that the pension funding gap must be solved before we can emerge from Chapter 11 or get the $1 Billion loan. How do we get from here to there?

 

[LavMan]

ALPA is getting 19% of the stock all ready

 

[autofixer]

I am sure the pilots would accept the same deal the rampers and agents got in the 90's. I would! Don't terminate ALPAs pension, but rather freeze it and start a 401k with company matching.

I think it is obvious the company does not want to settle this issue. There must be another motive that is not yet apparent.

 

[Andy S.]

[blockquote]
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On 2/21/2003 12:44:13 PM N628AU wrote:

This whole pension debate on this board has turned into us vs. them, and we are starting to lose focus. Many are saying Dave is either greedy or reneging on a promise.

Let me post this: Does anyone have a proposal for a solution to make everyone happy? We must all agree that the pension funding gap must be solved before we can emerge from Chapter 11 or get the $1 Billion loan. How do we get from here to there?
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[/blockquote]

Freeze the pension plan. Then take the 8% of new stock that the company is awarding to themselves and deposit it in the pension trust account. Set up a new defined contribution plan for the pilots as previously discussed. If US Airways and the economy does well, the increase in stock values will close the underfunding gap, plus the pilots will have great incentive to see the company prosper. US Airways would eventually have to cure the entire underfunding problem, but the above formula would buy them a great deal of time.

Of course, management would have to part with some of their riches, but they are in part responsible for the underfunding problem in the first place.

Andy S.

 

[Andy S.]

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On 2/21/2003 139 PM RowUnderDCA wrote:

What is the distribution of the new stock? Who gets what? Would ALPA be willing to put up some token amount of its stock?
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[/blockquote]

I believe the pilots are getting about 10% of the new stock. You will have to ask their MEC if they would want to convert some of this to the pension trust fund.

Andy S.

 

[pit76dr]

Rowunderdca:

Give back more to Dave? Are you kidding?

"2.4% DOH to Jan. '03 and FAE best 36 out of ten or - Shut it Down!"

 

[pit76dr]

Lavman:

Yeah! After giving 50% of our pay (in my case)! A 19% share of possibly worthless stock -- what a great deal!

 

[RowUnderDCA]

What is the distribution of the new stock? Who gets what? Would ALPA be willing to put up some token amount of its stock?

 

[LavMan]

No one forced you to give up your pay, like Dave's #1 cheerleader told us IAM members and CWA members, if you don't like it quit.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

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On 2/21/2003 2:31:54 PM Schatzee wrote:

I think US should just stop all the pensions for the remaining groups that have them, start them off with a 401k like I got 10+ years ago as a customer service agent and get on with life. Everyone would then be on the same type of plan and maybe the us vs them would stop.
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[/blockquote]

hmmm, but leave the current retirees alone. Require the company to sweeten their stream of payments and have management match any employee groups offer of stock. So, let's say ALPA puts in 2 points and the other groups but in .5 points, managment matches with 3-4 points, sell it to somebody who will be interested because it will solve all the pension problems (let's pretend) and turn the self-destructive, self-fulfilling prophesy of mutally assured liquidation, into mutually assured success (COMPLETE FANTASY, I KNOW.)

 

[RowUnderDCA]

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On 2/21/2003 1:36:32 PM pit76dr wrote:

Lavman:

Yeah! After giving 50% of our pay (in my case)! A 19% share of possibly worthless stock -- what a great deal!
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[/blockquote]

Well, it wouldn't be worthless if it saved your pension, right? Especially, if it leveraged other contributions? (mind you I'm not talking issues of justice, here. That would be foolish.)

 

[autofixer]

I think he means the new stock may be worthless like the other stock options ALPA was given in return for their never ending concessions for this 3rd rate company. This place is still on thin ice, so why risk your retirement years--pilots have to retire by law at age 60, so retirement could be up to 30 years for many pilots--on another stock option scheme? The pilot group has been bitten by this issue at least twice in the past 10 years.

The risk is very high. The corportate culture at U is still the same(horrible work ethic, nepotistic). Costs are still very high even after concessions. As a matter of fact, U's costs are still uncompetetive. Fuel prices are high, load factors are low, yeilds and fares are low and war is looming in the next couple of weeks. There may not be a U to work for this time next year, even without the pension issues thrown into the mix.

 

[Schatzee]

I think US should just stop all the pensions for the remaining groups that have them, start them off with a 401k like I got 10+ years ago as a customer service agent and get on with life. Everyone would then be on the same type of plan and maybe the us vs them would stop.

Personally, I don't think it would because the different groups of the USAirways family treat each just that way. We can talk about each other but unless you're in the "family", it generally is not taken well by the entire group from an outsider.

 

[chipmunn]

N628AU is right in that this is turning into a labor fight, which is not productive. I do not want to see anybody lose pay, benefits, or their retirement nor does the ALPA MEC.

My point is that ALPA has been singled out to take all of the pension burden and that is unfair. In fact, the FSA and CWA had their plans frozen and will maintain their vested benefit. This option is not available to the pilots, yet.

If it is legal and possible, how about freezing all employee pension plans and then starting a defined contribution plan for every employee?

That way all employee groups and management share the pain.

ALPA will not be unreasonable, but the pilots will not agree to keep taking cuts, when every defined benefit retirement plan keeps becoming more underfunded, and nobody else but the pilots share the pain.

Chip

 

[RowUnderDCA]

I've been wondering this:

What does 'freezing' mean?

How is it different from terminating?

How would freezing save U money?

Would freezing affect current retirees?