Allied Pilots Association Calls on Congress

[FA Mikey]

''Arming the Cockpit Provides a Critical Last Line of Defense''


FORT WORTH, Texas--The Allied Pilots Association (APA), which represents the 11,000 pilots who fly for American Airlines issued an appeal to the federal government today to expand the Federal Flight Deck Officer program to enable more pilots to undergo training and certification

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030805/55718_1.html

The sad thing is GW will likely throw his support as well as the gun toting right wing fanatics in congress. When it came to the flight attendants needing self defense in protecting passengers and ourselves. It was dropped like a lead balloon. Guess we should have asked for guns, we may have gotten them from this goverment.

 

[MiAAmi]

Its a little late for guns in the cockpit. What the need for guns in the cockpit are when they just put new cockpit doors in is beyond me. I think if something is going to happen it probably won't involve the cockpit anymore.

 

[Mach85ER]

FA Mikey,

You have it wrong. Bush and the executive branch have been against arming
the pilots from the beginning and are still obstructing the program in a
blatant slap against federal law. If anything, the "Right Wing" has been a
hinderance to the program at the same time there has been critical and enthusiatic support from the major "Left Wingers" such as Sen. Barbara
Boxer and Rep. Pete DeFazio.

-------------------------
"When it came to the flight attendants needing self defense in protecting passengers and ourselves.
-------------------------

I am still willing to listen to any ideas, but I have yet to see any
defense weapon the FA's would have in back that nearly every FA wouldn't lose immediately to even a slightly trained hijacker. There are a few big guys
that I would trust though. I wouldn't want a gun in back while in uniform.
Only undercover and after completing the full Air Marshal course would I feel
ok ab out being armed in back.

 

[Mach85ER]

----------------
On 8/6/2003 1122 AM MiAAmi wrote:

Its a little late for guns in the cockpit. What the need for guns in the cockpit are when they just put new cockpit doors in is beyond me.

----------------​

It is the theory of defensive layers. In the event that ways can be devised to defeat the outer layers, each successive inner layer might stop and attack. The trained, armed pilot would add an additional layer of defense that might prevent something like a fully fueled widebody from being driven into a stadium with 85,000 people in it. It is just another layer of security, and unlike many other layers, this one is very cost effective.
The door is a definate improvement and a critical defensive layer. However, history has shown that nearly every defensive line fails when a cunning human without morals desires to defeat it. I really don't think a knowledgable safecracker or Special Forces type soldier would think the new door is like the bank vault of Fort Knox. Million dollar paintings are protected by incredible layers of hardware and human security, yet they still seem to get stolen, although rarely. The idea is to further reduce the odds with each layer.

----------------
On 8/6/2003 1122 AM MiAAmi wrote:

I think if something is going to happen it probably won't involve the cockpit anymore.

----------------​

I wish I could share in your optimism. If you look at the history of these bastards, once they find a successful method, they tend to favor it. It's been about 20 years since they were wildly successful with the truck bomb on the Marines in Beirut. They haven't slowed up using that method since. the USS Cole was hit with the boat version, as well as the French oil tanker off Yemen. The latest warning says they still are attempting to use airliners as they did on 9/11. If you are a flightcrewmember, ask an AirMarshal about the probing the terrorists have been doing since 9/11.

 

[dogdriver]

On 8/5/2003 7:48:40 PM FA Mikey wrote:

The sad thing is GW will likely throw his support as well as the gun toting right wing fanatics in congress.

FA Mikey,

Why would it be such a sad thing if cockpit security was enhanced? If cockpit crews were armed 2 years ago, 9-11 would be a distant memory. Also, GW and his group of fanatics are doing everything they can to keep the cockpit free of guns. Out of the 10s of thousands of airline pilots, only about 44 (that is the latest I've heard) are allowed to defend themselves. After almost 2 years, I think that's pretty pathetic, even by Washington standards.

 

[FWAAA]

----------------
On 8/6/2003 11:03:36 AM Mach85ER wrote:

FA Mikey,

You have it wrong. Bush and the executive branch have been against arming
the pilots from the beginning and are still obstructing the program in a
blatant slap against federal law. If anything, the "Right Wing" has been a
hinderance to the program at the same time there has been critical and enthusiatic support from the major "Left Wingers" such as Sen. Barbara
Boxer and Rep. Pete DeFazio.

-------------------------
"When it came to the flight attendants needing self defense in protecting passengers and ourselves.
-------------------------

I am still willing to listen to any ideas, but I have yet to see any
defense weapon the FA's would have in back that nearly every FA wouldn't lose immediately to even a slightly trained hijacker. There are a few big guys
that I would trust though. I wouldn't want a gun in back while in uniform.
Only undercover and after completing the full Air Marshal course would I feel
ok ab out being armed in back.




----------------​

You are 100% correct. Bush has been against arming pilots the whole time (as was his idiot Democrat, Mineta) together with Loy, Magaw and Ridge. All are against armed flight crews.

Boxer and Feinstein, very liberal Senators from California, voted in favor of armed pilots. The House overwhelmingly approved the measure and if I recall correctly, the Senate voted 87-6 to allow pilots to be armed.

This isn't a right-wing, gun-nut issue; it involves the only possible last means of defense to prevent the next muslim terrorist-hijacked plane from flying into the Sears Tower or the Empire State Building or any number of other skyscrapers.

As GWB is fond of saying, you are either with us or against us. And on this issue, opposing guns on the flight deck is equivalent to joining OBL in his holy war on America. If you are against guns for pilots, you are for Al Qaeda. Simple as that. Too bad Bush is such an idiot that he doesn't realize that.

 

[Diesel8]

Are terrorist are indeed probing, then why no arrests? Of course, knowing our friends in "high places" they are more than likely clueless as to actual incidents. Sorry

Secondly, not sure how your new door is, but the one I am familiar with, is pretty darn solid and while anything can be brought down, this one would take some serious work. Once someone start taking an axe to it, of course an axe is hard to get on these days, I think you would find quite a few people getting upset with that notion.

If you feel the need for a gun, by all means, I am not going to stand in your way. As far as I am concerned, there are more efficient methods of securing an airplane and no, it does not involve harrasing grandmothers, Medal of Honor recipients and little kids. Sure you know where I am going with this!

 

[Mach85ER]

----------------
On 8/6/2003 5:49:48 PM Diesel8 wrote:

Are terrorist are indeed probing, then why no arrests? Of course, knowing our friends in "high places" they are more than likely clueless as to actual incidents. Sorry

----------------​

My information comes from fellow crewmembers with first person accounts and discussions with AirMarshals with first person accounts. It has been going on.

An axe isn't going to cut it with the doors. Discussions about what may or may not breach the door are best left off a public board. If you want to feel safe behind your door, go ahead, you have too. George Soros will shut your airline down before he will ever let you guys have guns. He is a major anti-gun guy.

 

[Diesel8]

Not disputing that you have heard accounts, however, I am still surprised, that we have not heard about any arrests. After all, the Homeland Security is quick to point out the good things they do, so that we will disregard the bad stuff.

I have no problem with you having a gun, if that makes you feel better. As far as Mr. Soros is concerned, I doubt very much, that he would care either way, but nice try!