Allegheny All Prop WO?

[ITRADE]

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On 6/2/2003 536 PM wings396 wrote:


their employees to death as this outfit does. As I said ITRADE must be immune to this crap in a large station where his position is safe.

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You''re assuming that I work for US.

 

[wings396]

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On 6/3/2003 8:57:32 AM ITRADE wrote:

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On 6/2/2003 536 PM wings396 wrote:


their employees to death as this outfit does. As I said ITRADE must be immune to this crap in a large station where his position is safe.

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You''re assuming that I work for US.

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If you don''t work for us, you can''t begin to relate to what is going on with those of us here that do. When you see good flights that GENERATE REVENUE get axed, it is obvious that something is rotten in CCY. In my station I have seen our marketshare vanish to other airlines in the past 2 years. Airport traffic has increased, and ours has vanished. We were the dominant carrier in an area with growing population and a chance to capture it all. By years end we will have handed most of it over to others. With this mentality, US will never make a profit as they have given up too much marketshare. On the RJ issue, even AA UA DL CO that have more than we do, continue to lose their shirts as well.

 

[Todd B]

Lets play nice!

 

[wings396]

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On 6/2/2003 6:06:41 PM Mike W wrote:

ITRADE,
When''s the revenueprofit generation gonna start?It seems that this management team is having a slight problem in that area.

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Mike you are 100% on the money here. This companies idea of generating a profit, consists of cutting markets,wages and anthing but fighting the competion. It won''t be long until they have cut so much, that we will only offer flights from PHL-CLT. They still fail to realize that by cutting costs in some areas, they also are cutting off revenues...this will never be a formula to profitability. We have already shrunk so much that the competition is eating us alive with no end in sight. As we vacate DL is moving in with Airtran and Southwest not far behind. Once we lose this traffic, it won''t be back.

 

[ITRADE]

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On 6/3/2003 10:18:13 AM wings396 wrote:
If you don''t work for us, you can''t begin to relate to what is going on with those of us here that do.
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I''ve got plenty of friends and neighbors that work for US and the affiliated carriers. So, I understand what is going on.

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When you see good flights that GENERATE REVENUE get axed, it is obvious that something is rotten in CCY.
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Every flight generates revenue assuming there is a passenger on it or some freight below in the hold. Whether the flight generates a PROFIT is a different matter. Clearly, by looking at US''s 10Qs and 10Ks, generating a PROFIT has not been a easy thing to accomplish.

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In my station I have seen our marketshare vanish to other airlines in the past 2 years. Airport traffic has increased, and ours has vanished. We were the dominant carrier in an area with growing population and a chance to capture it all. By years end we will have handed most of it over to others. With this mentality, US will never make a profit as they have given up too much marketshare.
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Well, without knowing the specifics of what city you''re in, you would have to surmise generally that the city may not have been a profit generator for the airline. Fly planes full all you want, but if you''re doing nothing but losing money on them, why fly? I understand that airlines do offer some flights as loss leaders to ensure a broad network, but if you''re down to counting pennies, you can''t afford additional losses.

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On the RJ issue, even AA UA DL CO that have more than we do, continue to lose their shirts as well.
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RJs are not the only component to profits or losses. US had the fewest number of RJs of all the hub-spoke majors and was the first to post losses (back in 99/00). This is not to say that RJs, or lack thereof, were the singular reason for US''s early fall into red, but the inability to compete on routes (RJs v. turboprops) really hurt - and continue to hurt.

 

[Mike W]

PineyBob,
Frankly,I''m appalled at the tone of your response.lol I''m not sure why you feel that questioning when the revenueprofit generation is going to start is somehow unreasonable. I''m also not sure how it could be construed as pissing and moaning,complaining or anything else.The employees of this company have stepped up and done what was required of them.Even after industry leading concessions and numerous violations to our contracts,this employee group has continued to perform with professionalism.I''ve seen many of your posts which compliment the employees of US Airways for doing such a fine job.I don''t think questioning when Seigel and the others at the top will be accountable for doing their jobs is unreasonable.You can also be sure that the criticism of Dave and his boys doesn''t have much effect,as they haven''t been interested in anything we''ve had to say since they got their last round of concessions.

 

[MarkMyWords]

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On 6/2/2003 3:40:00 PM ONTHESTREET wrote:


It has nothing to do with the airplane. Southwest does just fine with the 73 and no RJ''s.


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I really get tired of hearing this argument over and over...."Southwest doesn''t have RJ''s and they make money!" Well guess what? Southwest also doesn''t fly in/out of airports like ORD, LGA, DCA, PHL....it is to expensive to do so! There is a reason they don''t fly to places like ELM, SBN, GRR, ILM, HSV....they couldn''t fly there with thier 737''s and do it profitably!

Comparing US to WN is apples and oranges. From route structure to employee productivity, there is no fair comparison. Are you adovcating that we scrap our hub systems in PHL, PIT, CLT and sell off our slots in DCA and LGA and become a point to point carrier that flies everyone from the NE to Florida? These WN type arguements are tiresome.

 

[Mike W]

MMW,
It''s funny,management doesn''t have a problem using Southwest as a measuring stick when it suits their purposes.

 

[FM2436]

There are two distinct markets that rely on aviation, a mass market and a small community/non-mass market. Ninety percent of the passengers and money in our aviation system are found traveling among the 75 largest population centers in the country. Airlines are hyper-competitive within this mass market (with a few exceptions I''ll get to). So competitive, in fact, that the network airlines currently lack the pricing power to achieve breakeven results. All the service of Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, etc. are focused on this part of the market because these are the only routes that have the passenger density to support point-to-point service (and they are taking an increasing share of this market''s traffic from network carriers).

Southwest and the other low-fare, point-to-point carriers are great airlines and important to our system. But while 90 percent of the passengers and revenues may travel among the top 75 population centers in the country, air transportation is still a vital service for more than 500 communities that have scheduled service. In all, there are approximately 60,000 domestic city-pair markets in the United States. Only the top 5 percent or so have 100 passengers a day or more and might hope to support direct, point-to-point service. So if we want to maintain service for 95 percent of the city-pair markets in the country, we need a financial/legal structure that supports both the network carriers'' model and point-to-point carriers'' model. This isn''t just a small community issue. Most medium-size and larger cities are also in this part of the market for travel in their smaller city-pair markets.

Above 2-paragraphs taken from AAAE''s Airports Magazine

http://www.airportnet.org/depts/publicatio...403/crises1.htm

 

[W:EXCH:INVOL]

Mark said, "There is a reason they don''t fly to places like ELM, SBN, GRR, ILM, HSV....they couldn''t fly there with thier 737''s and do it profitably!"



We used to fly to a lot MORE small cities like these. I expect we''ll pull out of these, too. They can''t do it with 737s? I doubt if we can do it with RJs.

INVOL

 

[ITRADE]

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On 6/3/2003 3:58:40 PM W:EXCH:INVOL wrote:

Mark said, "There is a reason they don''t fly to places like ELM, SBN, GRR, ILM, HSV....they couldn''t fly there with thier 737''s and do it profitably!"



We used to fly to a lot MORE small cities like these. I expect we''ll pull out of these, too.

INVOL

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Yes, and they made so much money doing it...

 

[wings396]

A lot of the small cities did very well with the 737 and other narrowbody A/C, and made a profit that way. It was only after the PIT hub was chopped to the bone with few connecting options that this changed. The same is true with CLT. Some cities only had one or two flights a day that could not always get the passengers where they wanted to go at a convienent time. On the other hand DL had 4-5 Mainline....that''s right Mainline flights to ATL that could. If a passeneger has a choice to get to their destination without a double connection on us, they will choose DL. I was in TYS a while back and we were flying DH-8''s to CLT and DL had MD-88''s to atl..what is wrong here..they have enough demand for an MD-88 and we run 37 seats to our Southeasern hub...I was on DL, and the flight was 3/4 on a Saturday afternoon...this is what is killing us day by day..

 

[LukeSkywalker]

Amazing, all the responses and no one answered my question. Does anyone know the answer?

 

[airbrush]

Not sure if anyone knows yet, Luke (at least none of us worker bees). I know we (Allegheny) have an RJ implementation committee that meets weekly to plan
the details of bringing them on line, but I''m sure Piedmont has one, too. It seems they want to keep us all treading water and hanging onto every hint that comes from CCY until they decide we have a need to know our futures. I was discussing the issue today with my boss (Mgr. of Dispatch) and he thinks we will be getting RJs, but that is based as much on conjecture as any solid
info.
Sorry I can''t offer you more than that. Good luck!

 

[IveMovedOn]

Prior to being downsized, the word in the office was that ALG wasn''t "playing ball" and that they would not be getting RJs.