Airline Lobbying

[Bob Owens]

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On 1/26/2003 3:00:33 PM flyhigh wrote:

FAIR? What the heck does fair have to do with it? Fair is what your state holds in the the summer. That's about the dumbest thing I've heard anyone say. Fair is socialism and communism, not capitalism. Go somewhere else if you don't like it. The RLA was enacted to prevent the vital railroad industry from being taken hostage by unions...over time, its effectiveness in fulfilling that task for the airlines has diminished tp the point of being useless. It's absurd to say you don't want to change jobs, but will instead stay at this one and take the company down with you because you don't like it. That's where we are at.
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The RLA has been used effectively to reduce workers leverage and compensation for years. What happened was the airlines, which require a great deal in personal sacrifices from thier employees grew so large and drove wages so low that they were faced with the problem that if any entire segment of the workforce struck they could not fill the vacancies because they would not be able to find enough qualified workers that wanted the jobs. Far from being held hostage the airlines just lost the ability to dictate lower wages . They had grown so used to having that ability that they claim that its unfair when they cant. Mechanics real wages are less than 1% more than they were in 1978. Total real compensation is considerably less despite huge improvements in productivity. The airlines are simply the victims of unrealistic expectations. They want direct labor costs to decrease while productivity increases. We simply can use the same market forces that they use to justify executive compensation. Try to replace us all at once. The airlines have the right to permanently replace us, but now they claim to need to take away our right to strike. We are not government workers, what possible justification could there be to take away our rights to withhold our labor from a private corporation? Airlines are businesses and they reserve the right to deny air service to communities that do not provide enough return, why should employees be denied the same right? If the government feels that this service is essential and supplements the airlines for providing unprofitable service then maybe they should suppliment the workers too.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 1/27/2003 8:12:22 PM RV4 wrote:

Does Hillary Clinton also speak for those in New York?
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It depends on what she is saying. There are a lot of people in NY with varoius interests, the question is does she speak for the majority?

 

[RV4]

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On 1/31/2003 12:43:12 PM Bob Owens wrote:


The RLA has been used effectively to reduce workers leverage and compensation for years. What happened was the airlines, which require a great deal in personal sacrifices from thier employees grew so large and drove wages so low that they were faced with the problem that if any entire segment of the workforce struck they could not fill the vacancies because they would not be able to find enough qualified workers that wanted the jobs. Far from being held hostage the airlines just lost the ability to dictate lower wages . They had grown so used to having that ability that they claim that its unfair when they cant. Mechanics real wages are less than 1% more than they were in 1978. Total real compensation is considerably less despite huge improvements in productivity. The airlines are simply the victims of unrealistic expectations. They want direct labor costs to decrease while productivity increases. We simply can use the same market forces that they use to justify executive compensation. Try to replace us all at once. The airlines have the right to permanently replace us, but now they claim to need to take away our right to strike. We are not government workers, what possible justification could there be to take away our rights to withhold our labor from a private corporation? Airlines are businesses and they reserve the right to deny air service to communities that do not provide enough return, why should employees be denied the same right? If the government feels that this service is essential and supplements the airlines for providing unprofitable service then maybe they should suppliment the workers too.

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This view will only prove itself when either the mechanics are led by the AFL-CIO to protect each other's interest to prevent further erosion. Or we all get together in a mechanics only union and are trained in real unionism instead of politics and sloganism.

Otherwise, this is nothing more than artificial tough talk with nothing to back-up what can be proven as threats and philosophy.

It is not the RLA that weakens us, it our leaders whom believe they are the union and speak on our behalf. Thus, we sit on our duffs and rely on the illusion and then blame "the union" when they fail. It is also the members fault for not taking "the union" back from the dictators and demanding accountability and true union leadership. Of course it has also been proven, and I believe you witnessed first hand, that the TWU structure prohibits take over by democratic control and thus the members are relieved of responsibility.

 

[RV4]

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On 1/31/2003 1225 PM Bob Owens wrote:


Local 562 speaks for its members, PERIOD. I feel that the roll call vote (which is really a proxy vote) is illegal. It defeats the purpose of having a Presidents council, which I am assuming is supposed to be modeled on our Senate. Every president should have one vote at these councils however to preserve the rights of the larger locals a 35% vote of the council should be able to force a membership vote on an issue of broad importance. Proxy votes should not be legal unless the President actually receives authorization to cast votes in behalf of each member. In other words Burchette only received around three thousand votes yet he has the right to proxy vote for 7000 members. Those 4000 members may not be in favor of what he is voting on.
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You are close, except it is the entire Presidents Council that is really illegal.

There is no LM-1, LM-2, LM-3, reporting and there are no By-Laws on file with the D.O.L. for the renegade organization. The Presidents Council is actually set-up as patsy or scape goat to protect International TWU.

This is based on documented legal opinions created during the investigation into the numerous violations of law during the 1995 contract ratification. You must have been so focused on the "slide show" that you paid little attention to the content presented.

The lawyer could not even determine the proper party defendant in the event Local 567 wanted to file for injunctive relief or a restraining order to stop the signing of the agreement. Of course it was pointed out clearly also, that brother Koziatek had already sent a letter to AA instructing implementation of agreement and thus the signing was actually ceremonial not legal.

Surprise Bob, I actually agree with your assesment of the Tulsa sheep er-a Union Members. As much as you and I disagree on Political matters, we do see eye-to-eye on some issues.

I would only add that, Local 562 is the members, not something that speaks for members. At least this is the way it should be. I have never really understood the TWU training which makes members believe and repeat views that seperate the union as an institution away from the membership. And coming from an Officer, this really concerns me.

 

[RV4]

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On 1/31/2003 12:22:32 PM Bob Owens wrote:

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On 1/27/2003 8:12:22 PM RV4 wrote:

Does Hillary Clinton also speak for those in New York?
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It depends on what she is saying. There are a lot of people in NY with varoius interests, the question is does she speak for the majority?
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Doesn't this also apply to a "Local" that claims to speak for the members?

 

[Buck]

Bob I promote divsion, the mechanics from fleet service. You on the other hand promote division of your own craft and class. You must believe that fleet service should be paid the same as a mechanic? You speak of the mneed for your wages to be higher because of where you live. You could move or you could read your contract book and under Article 4 Compensation you will find a group now known as Overhaul Support Mechanics. Is this the market rate you are referring to? American still has the lowest average wage in the industry.(barring those in bankruptcy or those who have conceded their wages) The average TUL mechanic does make less than you because the original SRP classifcation that the line mechanics have never experienced. Please quit placing yourself above your fellow mechanics that are represented by the TWU.

 

[RV4]

Stanley Aronowitz was born in 1933 and grew up in the Bronx, New York City. He attended Brooklyn College until he was suspended for leading a sit-in in the Dean’s office to protest the suppression of the radical student newspaper. After leaving school he became a steelworker and then a union organizer for the Amalgamated Clothing Workers (now UNITE) and the Oil, Chemical and Atomic Workers.


Aronowitz received his B.A. from the New School in 1968 and became associate director of the anti-poverty organization Mobilization for Youth, where he was also a community organizer. In the early `70s he founded Park East High School in East Harlem, the first post-war experimental public high school in New York City, and taught community studies at the College of Staten Island. He has since taught at the University of California Irvine, the Center for Worker Education at City College of the City University of New York, and CUNY Graduate Center, where he is currently Distinguished Professor of Sociology and Urban Education.


Aronowitz was a New Left activist during the `60s. He was the chief New York organizer for the Independent Committee to End the War in Vietnam, an editor of the influential journal Studies on the Left, and taught at the radical Free University of New York. He is presently an elected officer of the CUNY faculty and staff union, the Professional Staff Congress.


In 1973 Aronowitz published his first book, the acclaimed False Promises: The Shaping of American Working-Class Consciousness. He has written 15 books in all. The most recent are The Last Good Job in America, essays on culture and politics; The Knowledge Factory, a critique of the corporatization of higher education; and From the Ashes of the Old, an analysis of the state of the labor movement. His book on class in America, Class Rules, will be published in 2003. He has also written about science and technology, philosophy and culture.


Aronowitz lives in Manhattan. He is married to the writer Ellen Willis, with whom he has a teenage daughter. He also has four older children.

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So this guy wrote some books and made some money. What did that fix Bob?

You and him and I have something in common, lots of words and debate that equal failed results.

Stay Tuned for More

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 1/31/2003 6:48:05 PM RV4 wrote:



It is not the RLA that weakens us, it our leaders whom believe they are the union and speak on our behalf. Thus, we sit on our duffs and rely on the illusion and then blame "the union" when they fail. It is also the members fault for not taking "the union" back from the dictators and demanding accountability and true union leadership. Of course it has also been proven, and I believe you witnessed first hand, that the TWU structure prohibits take over by democratic control and thus the members are relieved of responsibility.


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The main problem with the convention is the voting process. The system in place at the 2001 Convention did not provide accountability and ensure accuracy. This could be fixed by having all the Presidents of the Locals request that an accountable accurate voting system be put in place by the next Convention. Local 100, the "Bus Drivers" that you usually deride, pushed a motion that all votes be conducted by "division of the House" at the beginning of the convention. The chair spoke out against it and the majority of the ATD (Tulsa, with the exception of one guy who was lambasted by his fellow Tulsans) voted against it. The main arguement was that it would take too long. The tables in Vegas were waiting to take thier money after all. I did some searching on the WEB and found an electronic voting system that would not only be quicker than the Voice vote but also provide the members with a list that would show how the delegates voted on each resolution. I sent this information to every President that I could find on the Web, the only ones who expressed support were Local 100 (Bus drivers & subway workers), Local 501 and the 4 other maint locals. Local 501 has since had a leadership change and I have not discussed the issue with the new officers. With an accountable accurate system in place Democratic reform is possible, but if the elected leaders that you put in place are not willing to ruffle a few feathers to make it so then the members must ask them why? Perhaps one of your fellow Tulsans could bring the issue up? Just as the Presidents council acts as a patsy for the International, the International acts as a patsy for your own Presidents who may be eying an International job for the future. Stanley Aronowitz (you wouldnt like him) wrote a scathing book about Unions from a pro-union veiwpoint where he described the phenomina where once leaders get put in place they are only removed "by death or indictment". He also spoke of how reform is stymied by local leaders who are off the clock whose main priority becomes just keeping that position that keeps them off the floor. The sought after International job, where they never have to run for reelection is the grand prize for many Presidents. Bringing up and fighting for reforms such as Electronic voting would not enhance thier chances of gaining such a position.So from the Presidents point of veiw, "if the members dont demand it then why bother?". Once again it does boil down to the members. The structure would allow such such changes but the members have to keep on thier Presidents tail to ensure that they push for the things that they want. For 16 years I've heard about how it was "Fleet Services fault, the bus Drivers fault(Local 100), and yes I myself have used this one; Tulsa' fault, but these are really excuses that we use to justify doing nothing. The first step to reform is to insure accountability. At present the only ones who know how delegates voted are those who where at the convention, and even then its hard to say for sure with a Voice vote. I could tell you how Tulsa voted onlt because they sat in front of us. Delegates vote in behalf of the members, the members have a right to know how in effect "they" voted.The members must put pressure on thier officers to push for an accountable voting system.

 

[RV4]

More on Stanley Aronowitz.

This guy sounds very familiar?

EVERY election year, it seems, a candidate emerges and, citing the erosion of our political system, the vapid sound bites, the fleeing from real debate, the fusion of entertainment and political campaigning, declares that it is not worth playing by the rules.

Enter Stanley Aronowitz, 69, the Green Party's nominee this year for governor of New York, who, when you listen to him call for higher taxes to increase money for schools, pay for campaign finance reform and establish state-subsidized health insurance, is the anti-candidate this time around.

He has set out to anger the powerful and the rich who, he says, pull the strings of the "Cheney-Rumsfeld-Bush regime," stressing that the troika is listed in order of importance. And, like all of those who believe in a cause, he is willing to go down with the ship rather than compromise.
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Bob, when it comes to UAL, USAIR, and AA, you have also spoke of "going down with the ship rather than compromise"?

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 1/31/2003 11:52:52 PM Buck wrote:

Bob I promote divsion, the mechanics from fleet service. You on the other hand promote division of your own craft and class. You must believe that fleet service should be paid the same as a mechanic? You speak of the mneed for your wages to be higher because of where you live. You could move or you could read your contract book and under Article 4 Compensation you will find a group now known as Overhaul Support Mechanics. Is this the market rate you are referring to? American still has the lowest average wage in the industry.(barring those in bankruptcy or those who have conceded their wages) The average TUL mechanic does make less than you because the original SRP classifcation that the line mechanics have never experienced. Please quit placing yourself above your fellow mechanics that are represented by the TWU.
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Well once again you take what I say and run away with it. I support the separation of maint from fleet service. And I feel that we should be able to negotiate our pay based upon our merits. Fleet service should do the same. If they are able to negotiate the same wage as us, well, more power to them. My concern is that we negotiate a fair wage for the value of our labor. Our main obsticle is that the value of our labor is based on many factors including location. Since the majority of our class and craft live in a low cost area and are resistant to regional adjustments those of us in the high cost areas are put at a disadvantage are unable to get a fair price for our labor.

The average mechanic in JFK makes less per hour than I do because I am at top pay and one of the more senior mechanics. So that point is moot. What I am referring to is top pay. The comeback of "you can always move here" is a poor response, it still does not address the inequity. Its the same as "you can always quit". Both responses indicate that we should not try to correct the inequity, that we should run away from it. Mechanics Labor in the high cost areas are still being depressed to inflate top pay in Tulsa. If I move someone else will come in and be subjected to the same inequity. This inequity should be addressed and not ran away from. As far as the SRP,OSM issue goes you can thank your fellow Tulsans who voted for those concessions. Without thier overwhelming support we would not have those classifications. How many shop workers voted for SRPs believing that since SRPs would only be made through attrition that they would be safe? They voted from an "I got mine" shortsighted position. They got thiers.

 

[RV4]

Good Luck Bob,

Call the TWU International in New York, ask for publications and request copies of the "proceedings" of the 1989, 1993, 1997, and the 2001 TWU Constitutional Proceedings and copies of the President's Report.

Somehow get copies for ALL members to read. Instead of spending money on politicians, maybe you can get them to spend some money on informing the members of that which you and I already know about the Conventions. The members have to be notified and believe there is a problem before anyone ask them to fix it. How many really know the truth?

I cannot figure out how to activate members on matters which they have no knowledge of.

As for any leaders I elected. I was banned from voting or running because of a T-shirt I wore to work. Therefore, I elected nobody.

 

[Buck]

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On 2/1/2003 9:53:12 AM Bob Owens wrote:

Did I get mine? No, I'm still not making what I should be and the shortfall of the last 16 years will never be recouped.
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The shortfall created by the structure of the TWU that allowed for the B-scale and further concessions which have been controlled by the Fleet Service majority.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 2/1/2003 9:17:46 AM RV4 wrote:

And where did the members get this idea of attrition? It could not possibly have been offered in TWU Leadership propaganda to sell the contract, now could it? And now you are one of them. LOL, You got yours too didn't you Bob?

I believe the Line Workers that had Wheel and Brake, Emergency Slides, and the Coffee Pots, were also fed the same lie. And they got theirs also, didn't they Bob?
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Did I get mine? No, I'm still not making what I should be and the shortfall of the last 16 years will never be recouped.
As for the old timers, yea, they got thiers. I remember one old timer saying "six years aint that long guys, I voted yes" as he put in his retirement papers. Needless to say pockets were deep and arms were short when it came to a collection for him. I never said that the lines were pure either. The fact that they bought the "attrition" line does not change the fact that they were willing to sell out the fiture as long as they were taken care of.
As far as selling the contracts and being "one of them" I recall that you were pushing a YES vote while I pushed a NO vote on the latest contract.

 

[Buck]

Are you sure that you a TWU officer did not vote for any concessions since 1983? I am not sure of your seniority date, but believe it to be pre B scale. Actually obtaining a fair wage for your labor is exactly what you promote. When you continually allow,as an officer that is only concerned with his local, for the assets that could become an increase in your compensation to go to fleet service, then you will never gain your COLA. If on the other hand you are doing everything you can, within your ability, then your compensation must be where it is needed to be and the cost of living is a non factor. You say if Fleet Service is able to negotiate the same wage as the mechanic then more power to them. That is true, however when mechanics such as yourself allow for fleet to hold the majority over the mechanic, they will always make gains off of your skill. They can use the mechanics skills and abilities to negotiate just by having a voting majority throughout the system. A truly seperate mechanics union would allow for the mechanic having it's own majority and having to live with those decesion they create through self determination.
As for the average JFK mechanic making less than you also applies because you are an officer. The point is not moot. There are still mechanics at the maintenance bases who have not topped out and are part of the lowest average mechanic pay in the industry. You may refer to top pay, but the membership as a whole, with the maintenance bases as the majority of the union's division, refer to their direct compensation. They know what you are paid. I used you can always move there, because you and others on the line have used the same line. You use it by devaluating the recognizable skill of the mechanic because of there location of work that the company opted for.You should quit blaming TUL for the failures of the structure of the TWU. The concessionary contracts are the result of this structure, that allows for the Fleet Service controlled union to dominate all proceedings. Yes they voted for the I got mine brother attitude you are corect. This is bred from the same mentality of allowing the mechanics to be the minority. If TUL is the problem then there may be a fix. I am going to have to ask you for your help in this. You have a vast memory for the past of labor in the aviation industry. What happened at Braniff when the line seperated from the base maintenance?

 

[RV4]

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On 2/1/2003 843 AM Bob Owens wrote:

As far as the SRP,OSM issue goes you can thank your fellow Tulsans who voted for those concessions. Without thier overwhelming support we would not have those classifications. How many shop workers voted for SRPs believing that since SRPs would only be made through attrition that they would be safe? They voted from an "I got mine" shortsighted position. They got thiers.

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And where did the members get this idea of attrition? It could not possibly have been offered in TWU Leadership propaganda to sell the contract, now could it? And now you are one of them. LOL, You got yours too didn't you Bob?

I believe the Line Workers that had Wheel and Brake, Emergency Slides, and the Coffee Pots, were also fed the same lie. And they got theirs also, didn't they Bob?