Airline execs to reap millions

[700UW]

Well you would guess wrong, union dues are two times the hourly weighted wage, so if you make say $20 an hour your dues for $40 a month, for a total of $480 a year.
 
No where near the millions they get.
 
Aww, are you missing doogie since he is in DFW now and not PHX?
 
Your job will be gone in the next two years.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Yep, the execs took what amounts to 2.5 days pay per week from us to fund their schemes and compensation and the Unions took 2 hours pay per month and helped them do it.

 

[JAFA]

Well you would guess wrong, union dues are two times the hourly weighted wage, so if you make say $20 an hour your dues for $40 a month, for a total of $480 a year.
 
No where near the millions they get.

So if we assume 10000 IAM members at a company (we had far more IAM members when I was an IAM member) isn't that about 4.8 million dollars a year? I think that is more than Arpey's annual pay was, even more than Horton's not counting the $20 million in go away money. Of course if we remember that he was CEO for 2 years and will be non-executive chairman for another 2 it'll be a close call there. Especially if we change IAM add the combined IAM and TWU workforce.

 

[IORFA]

He's going to be non executive chairman till around May 2014. More like 5.5 months.

 

[eolesen]

Y'all knew the price for getting rid of the guy. Anyone who thought he could just be fired or would walk away for free was a fool.

The irony is that you guys asked for this path.

Despite all the vitriol channeled at Gerard, it turns out he was the one who stood up for your pensions, and took the honorable way out at the end. A good man demonized simply because of the title he held, and no regard for what he actually stood for.

Had you negotiated with him, think of all that might have been avoided...

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Arpey would not negotiate.  We had an offer from AA in 2010 and it was yet another concessionary contract.  Also remember that while all of the union workers were under massive concessions and he and his brain trust continued to lose $Billions while rewarding themselves with millions in bonuses.  Honorable?  You must surely be joking.  He took and took and took and then quit.  I was glad to see him go but never liked Tom Whoreton coming back here after cutting the pay and benefits of the AT&T employees.  We tried to negotiate with Arpey and all he was willing to do was continue the give backs while he and people like Brundage and the rest of the thieves reaped millions.  Also I would never say that underfunding the pensions so they could be frozen later on is "Standing up for the pensions."  But to the elite of the world it is what it is.  None of us peons will be getting  multi million dollar severance packages like the pirates who stole our company away like Carty, Arpey and Whoreton.  We are the ones who have sacrificed for this airline and we are the ones who continue to sacrifice while now a new bunch of managers will rape and pillage our airline.  The honest truth is that none of these people would be trusted to run a lemonade stand.  They proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they weren't up to the job.  Carty was a moron, Arpey was just a lousy CEO who had no plan other than shrink the airline into unprofitability and Whoreton is a hatchet man who only knows how to cut headcount along with pay and benefits.  Time will tell what kind of CEO Parker is going to be but I am not optimistic.  I never have claimed to be an expert on business but it seems to me if you are an airline you cannot make money unless you fly routes.  If you continue to cut routes as Arpey did you don't make as much money.  If you buy another airline that has historically been a weak earner (as Arpey did also) with massive debt, you are going to lose money.  He made sure he lost enough money to sell it to the unions that they had to give up everything to save the airline.  But I'm sure Eolesen considers this a genius business move.  Arpey is a scumbag and the fact that you worship him speaks volumes about your contempt for the very people who actually make an airline run.   The rank and file.  I find your version of "Honorable" amusing to say the least.

 

[Bob Owens]

Y'all knew the price for getting rid of the guy. Anyone who thought he could just be fired or would walk away for free was a fool.
The irony is that you guys asked for this path.
Despite all the vitriol channeled at Gerard, it turns out he was the one who stood up for your pensions, and took the honorable way out at the end. A good man demonized simply because of the title he held, and no regard for what he actually stood for.
Had you negotiated with him, think of all that might have been avoided...

Gerard stood for a pension he wasn't properly funding, the company admitted during negotiations that the 401K would cost them more than were currently paying for the pension. He was paying leases for Fokker aircraft that we didn't fly, terminal space in HUBS that were no longer Hubs and scores of other needless expenditures that would have been cleaned up had they filed BK in 2003, I'm sure the banks and vendors and lessors were glad he did what he did, basically took our money and gave it to them. We took massive concessions so AA could do that only to lose the pension and 8 years of an employee match for the 401K. We worked more hours for no pay compared to any of our peers in the industry. Arpey was no different than his predecessor, in fact he was part of the same team.

 

[Rogallo]

Yep....f.u.r.p.!!

 

[767one]

and you didn't think he would get his money one way or another?

They always get their money. Someday they might get what they really deserve. One can hope it will be very slow and painfull.
 
Happy new year!

 

[Jacobin777]

They always get their money. Someday they might get what they really deserve. One can hope it will be very slow and painfull.
 
Happy new year!

 
Not going to happen unfortunately.

 

[MetalMover]

Gerard stood for a pension he wasn't properly funding, the company admitted during negotiations that the 401K would cost them more than were currently paying for the pension. 

True, the cost of FUNDING or contributing to a 401k that would cost more than the DB. All one had to do was look at his/hers total value statement to see the difference . But wasn't their argument that continuing to pay OUT the DB was the problem for them?
You know, the same tune most cities and states across the country are singing with regards to public pensions?

 

[texasreb]

Gerard stood for a pension he wasn't properly funding, the company admitted during negotiations that the 401K would cost them more than were currently paying for the pension. He was paying leases for Fokker aircraft that we didn't fly, terminal space in HUBS that were no longer Hubs and scores of other needless expenditures that would have been cleaned up had they filed BK in 2003, I'm sure the banks and vendors and lessors were glad he did what he did, basically took our money and gave it to them. We took massive concessions so AA could do that only to lose the pension and 8 years of an employee match for the 401K. We worked more hours for no pay compared to any of our peers in the industry. Arpey was no different than his predecessor, in fact he was part of the same team.

Not to mention he was getting his but kicked by the other airlines. If we would have merged with Northwest airlines we would have had routes all over the world.

 

[700UW]

 

[OldGuy@AA]

True, the cost of FUNDING or contributing to a 401k that would cost more than the DB. All one had to do was look at his/hers total value statement to see the difference . But wasn't their argument that continuing to pay OUT the DB was the problem for them?
You know, the same tune most cities and states across the country are singing with regards to public pensions?

Most cities, towns and states are having problems with the pensions because they have stolen from them.  Much like Pan Am stole from theirs before they liquidated.

 

[Bob Owens]

Most cities, towns and states are having problems with the pensions because they have stolen from them.  Much like Pan Am stole from theirs before they liquidated.

Or AA before they filed BK. Remember Little telling us to lobby on behalf of a bill giving AA pension funding relief? Well another way of saying that is "allowing AA to not put the money we gave them in concessions into the pension plan like it was intended". Instead our money was used to pay banks millions in interest and Fees every time AA renegotiated the loans, it was used to pay lessors (banks) for Fokkers that AA didn't fly anymore, and other lessors rents on facilities AA didn't use anymore. Of course you can be sure that the executives pensions were fully funded.