Air Midwest Leaving Florida

[tadjr]

I received a note from someone who contacted the Ft Walton airport who verified that Air Midwest was pulling out of there in Jan. They did not know if anyone would be replacing them or adding service to another city (CLT?). The schedules still show Air Midwest running in Jan, but we all know that the Express schedule isnt added when the mainline flights are. I know PSA will be adding flights in Feb with the FLL startup, but does anyone have word if anyone will replace Air Midwest on any of their current routes?
MCO-VPS/PFN
TPA-PNS/VPS/PFN/EYW/PBI/MIA
MIA-EYW
???????

I know in the past one carrier has announced pullouts BEFORE someone else announced added service (I believe HGR was the most recent one) and didnt know if there were plans to keep ANY service intra Florida or are we going to give it away AGAIN!!!!

 

[phllax]

Tad, I know you would be happier than a pig in #### if the flying returned to Piedmont's Dash 8's. Now you'd finally be able to get all booked passengers and their bags out in the winter on a daily basis.

The other option could be Colgan or Chautaqua Saab 340's. I don't think you'd have any weight/balance issues with them either

 

[Light Years]

Chautauqua doesn't operate any Saabs anymore. The ones that they did were passed on a few years ago to Shuttle America, who have fortunately been phased out of the US Airways Express system.

Colgan Air operates 17 Saab 340Bs for USX, out of BOS, PIT, DCA and LGA.

 

[WSurf]

Hmmm, interesting! Piedmont is gonna hire 40 pilots a month all through next year (Fact). Group is looking for more Dash's (200/300 series). (Rumor) is group wants 60-70 Dash's operate by Piedmont for US Airways, and PDT will be the sole Bug Smasher for US Airways. I believe all the other Contract Prop Driving will be phased out. I think this is the beginning in trying to conserve cash by having all flying performed within Group.


And the Saab 340 has bad restrictions! With the new weights the Dash 200/300 can carry a full load with bags. 100 series went from a 37 to a 34 seater.

 

[Light Years]

Right now the only contract prop carriers are Colgan Air, Air Midwest, and Trans States. If you don't count the Beechcrafts and whether they will keep them or not, you are only looking at a few 19+ aircraft. The 17 Saabs and less than 10 J41s... that could be easily replaced by PDT. US doesn't have to pay contractors, they get more control over one part of thier product, keep the revenue in-house, and employees get a little bit of growth. Not to mention that the Dash is a modern, comfortable workhorse that US/PDT has years of experience with, and it can carry everyone's bags. Now if they could just get the contract RJs off the property!

What is the general rumour on the 19 seaters? Will those smaller cities just be phased out of the network? Will they stay around as codeshares with seperatly branded carriers? By now most of those cities they serve would not support anything larger, or are EAS.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I hope that the growth of PI happens. It will be good to see the folks there get some growth for a change.

Maybe it's just me, but I like riding the Dash. I'll take it over the RJ's on legs up to an hour or so anyday. With 2500 hours of having a DC-3 prop turning just behind the cockpit window, I may be a little prejudiced though.

Jim

 

[Capecod]

Right now the only contract prop carriers are Colgan Air, Air Midwest, and Trans States. If you don't count the Beechcrafts and whether they will keep them or not, you are only looking at a few 19+ aircraft. The 17 Saabs and less than 10 J41s... that could be easily replaced by PDT. US doesn't have to pay contractors, they get more control over one part of thier product, keep the revenue in-house, and employees get a little bit of growth. Not to mention that the Dash is a modern, comfortable workhorse that US/PDT has years of experience with, and it can carry everyone's bags. Now if they could just get the contract RJs off the property!

[post="198104"][/post]​

Maybe you don't understand the deal that U has with the prop carriers. U doesn't pay them anything. U gets the feed for free on routes that no one else wants to fly and at the same time they get part of the revenue. These are nothing but win win deals for U with the contract carrier taking ALL THE RISK! I see this as nothing but a loss for U and I don't think anyone will replace this flying as PDT already pulled out of FLA becuace they couldn't make money. -Cape

 

[Light Years]

Actually I do understand it. That's why we still have some silly service out of PIT, but not the big stuff. It's pretty much up to the carriers themselves if they want to keep operating it.

I don't think it's quite as FREE as you say though, I understood it to be a split risk type of thing, but perhaps you're right. There are some routes that have service from a wholly owned, and then a contractor on the same day. If it were completely free feed, I would think U would have done anway with any sort of owned prop long ago.

US won't make money on intra-Florida unless they are serious about it. They need to have a consistent product and record, reasonable aircraft, and the rght fares and frequencies.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't think it's quite as FREE as you say though, I understood it to be a split risk type of thing, but perhaps you're right.

[post="198121"][/post]​

I agree that the revenue sharing agreements aren't truly free, though I can't find any definitive description of the specifics of any of our prorated agreements with these carriers.

At the very least, there is sales expense (res, CTO, ATO, internet), probably some facility expense (do these carriers pay anything for gate space at the hubs they feed into), probably some personnel expense (do they have their own ground personnel - ramp, gate, etc - at the hub airports), etc.

It could certainly be the case that these expenses are factored into the revenue sharing formula, but that only means that the risk is shared as well as the revenue.

Jim

 

[Light Years]

None of the Express carriers pay for the facility use or gates, that's all done by Airways regardless of the agreement with the carrier. Ground handling is done by either US mainline, US mainline express, PDT, PSA or MDA ground employees (so all wholly-owned). The carriers may have thier own maintenace or supervisory staff at large stations.

There are (were?) a few exceptions to the rule in very small stations. Shuttle America employees operated the ground services in several stations that recieved service only from them (TTN, BED, FWA). If I'm not mistaken, Air Midwest/Mesa ground staffs it's own flights in the tiny PA/WV markets and in the KS markets, as does Colgan in New England. I've heard that Colgan uses it's own slots at LGA and DCA, so those flights couldn't be replaced by another carrier.

Of course, all marketing, sales etc is done through US. The prop carriers don't pay to use the US logo, marketing materials, cabin interiors or catering items, and I'd guess fuel just as the RJ carriers don't.

The difference seems to be that with the RJs, it's a capacity purchase, or almost a wet lease. US is paying all of the operating costs along with a small profit, regardless of how well the individual flights perform. With the props, the carrier is actually concerned about loads and revenue as that is how they are paid for the service. Much of the affiliate turboprop service is also subsidized through the EAS program.

I'd imagine the agreement with each carrier is different, and very convoluted and confusing. Suffice it to say that US is not saving any money by hiring and providing profitability to five airlines that in turn buy more aircraft to use for competitors service, while they have several in-house subsidiaries more than capable.

 

[WSurf]

US Airways (Piedmont) didn't lose money in Florida. We were moved out to strenghten the hub flying in CLT. Most flights in that area were always over 80% full, if not always full. Man! miss those AA Pilots fighting over the jumpseats! We had a good system going on down there, and then had a Mesa Dash 8 captain tell me how much they screwed FL up after we pulled out. Hopefully we can have a good presence again in FL. I heard US Airways really PO'ed a bunch of business travels after PDT left FL.

 

[AtlanticBeach]

I heard US Airways really PO'ed a bunch of business travels after PDT left FL.

[post="198179"][/post]​

Yep. Used to fly to 8 other Florida cities on Express.

 

[DLFlyer31]

I wouldn't be surprised if US cut the intra-Florida routes. There's so little left at this point, it might not be worth it.

Also, DL is beefing up its intra Florida service...launching PNS-TPA and PFN-MCO with RJ's. I have a feeling most customers will choose an ERJ over a B1900.

 

[WSurf]

I wouldn't be surprised if US cut the intra-Florida routes. There's so little left at this point, it might not be worth it.

Also, DL is beefing up its intra Florida service...launching PNS-TPA and PFN-MCO with RJ's. I have a feeling most customers will choose an ERJ over a B1900.

[post="198200"][/post]​

Yea, but like someone posted before! On a flight less then an hour I would rather be in a Dash 8 over that lawn dart (EMB-145). Business travelers can't even open a laptop on that airplane. Atleast on a Dash or CRJ you can stand up, and put the trey table down with a laptop on it.

 

[Light Years]

The company could easilty place the new CRJ interior in the Dashes and soundproof them. Most of the noise you hear as a passenger and just loose fittings in the cabin vibrating.