Air France dropping PHL while US keeps A333.

[flyingcat]

Where did you hear that AF is leaving PHL because of unacceptable loads on the 343? Where did you hear DL is going to replace the PHL-CDG service with a 757?

AF manager has already informed station staff. GDS has not been changed yet.

 

[FlyUs]

The new DL Terminal A in BOS was designed to accommodate a Customs and Immigration area, to serve not only DL, which had some BOS international flying at the time, but also AF. (I also heard a rumor about the late SR using that terminal.) All of this was pre-9/11, of course.

The point is, the infrastructure should be in place in that terminal, should the new DL/NW/KL/AF juggernaut choose to exploit it.

There are no customs facilities at the DL terminal in Boston. Other than NW BOS-AMS and AA BOS-LHR, there has been very little success on tatl routes for US carriers. I believe DAL and UA both discontinued their flights to London. AA has tried flights to SNN and MAN on 75s without success. The rumor is now that AAs seasonal BOS-CDG route maybe discontinued.

 

[Art at ISP]

DL is supposedly going to have PHL-CDG with a 757, according to a usually reliable source.
Also of note in this move is AF cancelling LAX-LHR and they are going to operate JFK-LHR with the 777!

Back on subject, however, remember you can have 100% load factor and still lose money.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Within the last few days BA said that their premium traffic (first/biz) between London and NYC was down 9% in September. That kind of drop in premium traffic can change the economics of a flight fast. Don't know if AF (or US) is seeing the same or not.

Jim

 

[Art at ISP]

Jim,

With the meltdown in banking and other big business going on now, I think you will see double digit declines in F/C traffic in the very near future.

We're already seeing very reasonable business class fares to Europe from the East Coast, and they are becoming the rule rather than the exception!

 

[USCREW]

Il n'est pas assez vieux pour avoir ce qu'il a.

haha...your translator is broken, Chou Chou

 

[Squonk]

I agree with Art. WIth all the turmoil in the financial markets, all this talk about global expansion is just that, TALK. The only good news is oil has dropped like a prom dress.


We are still------------------------------>

 

[ggiby]

Il n'est pas assez vieux pour avoir ce qu'il a.

neither will i

 

[PA18]

There are no customs facilities at the DL terminal in Boston.

You are correct.

There are no active Customs facilities at that terminal. What I said was, the terminal was designed to accommodate such facilities, as DL had very lofty expectations for BOS at the time. (When US revamped Terminal B in BOS over a decade ago, several international crew briefing rooms were built. They're now used as computer rooms, closets, etc.)

But from the time Terminal A was designed, to the time it opened, things obviously changed dramatically. In fact, DL was forced to take in CO as a "boarder" in that terminal, to help pay the bills.

 

[UPNAWAY]

With Oil dropping and the capacity cuts plus new fees I think in a strange way the Airlines might be better off in a economic downturn, a year of little to no growth will be stabilizing.

 

[Gloria Holtz]

I definitely think there is great opportunity to get back into the PIT-LGW or PIT-FRA market. Especially with FRA being a Star Alliance hub. I would prefer if they did it with the 767 though becuase I don't like working the airbus. I see that operation supporting a mini base of about 100 f/a's.

 

[az_wild727]

I definitely think there is great opportunity to get back into the PIT-LGW or PIT-FRA market. Especially with FRA being a Star Alliance hub. I would prefer if they did it with the 767 though becuase I don't like working the airbus. I see that operation supporting a mini base of about 100 f/a's.

Probably not very realistic what I am about to say, but instead of operating a mini base, it would be more cost effective if they ran two 767's in a triangle PHL-PIT-LHR-PHL for one and PHL-LHR-PIT-PHL for the 2nd. The PHL-PIT would allow for a bigger plane back home to PIT for commuting crews back home, while allowing a single crew to work PHL-PIT-LHR on the outbound leg. I think they would rather operate to LHR for more connections than LGW. PIT-FRA/MUC also sound nice. I'd think 0% chance for PIT base, but I'd give 5% chance for Euro flight from PIT. Would be nice.

This is going off on a tangent, but I remember reading once that US Airways got authority in '02 or '03 to fly PIT-NRT. Maybe it was ANA codeshare? Maybe just cargo, but I even remember reading a docket about this. Unfortunately I can't share too much, as I barely know anything about the subject since I wasn't really into aviation (or flying with US Airways) around 2002.

-Kinglobjaw

 

[ussnark]

Doesn't the company also have to abide by the pilots' transition agreement, and have 2 based in PHX since the -200s are growth aircraft?

What if there is one pilot contract by then? Would the "pilot's transition agreement" be rendered moot at that point, allowing management to place the aircraft wherever they wish?

 

[ussnark]

Within the last few days BA said that their premium traffic (first/biz) between London and NYC was down 9% in September. That kind of drop in premium traffic can change the economics of a flight fast. Don't know if AF (or US) is seeing the same or not.

Does US have premium traffic anymore? /snark

 

[PHL]

....it would be more cost effective if they ran two 767's in a triangle PHL-PIT-LHR-PHL for one and PHL-LHR-PIT-PHL for the 2nd.

Huh?! That would be a big waste of widebody resources.

Nobody would book a ticket from PHL to LHR by way of PIT, so there would be this huge gas guzzler running between PHL and PIT with a smattering of PHL-PIT only passengers and virtually no connecting passengers to any other PIT flights (since PIT is barely a hub anymore). Then the reverse would be true for your 2nd suggested widebody.

If PIT is to get LHR, it would/should be done with a single dedicated plane. But both BA and US have run this route (to LGW and LHR) and it just doesn't make the money. And with the even further reduction in PIT flights, such a route would have to rely on O&D traffic, which PIT just doesn't have to warrant a nonstop.

In fact, when BA served it with a 747-400, they flew PIT-PHL-LHR and LHR-IAD-PIT on the return. Then they switched to a PHL-LGW nonstop on a 767.