Air France dropping PHL while US keeps A333.

[az_wild727]

March 31, 2009 will be the last day Air France will operate a CDG-PHL-CDG round-trip. There are rumors for DL coming in with a 757 due to the their agreement with AF, but it just goes to show people do enjoy flying with US Airways enough to knock out the competition. I consider this a major victory for US Airways as it's one of the lucrative international markets where the competition is leaving. Good job to US Airways. Bonne Chance with feature international US Airways expansion at PHL.

-Kinglobjaw

 

[LCC_#1]

I'll have what he's having.

 

[az_wild727]

That would be one US Airways Fiesta Mix.

-Kinglobjaw

 

[Dog Wonder]

I'll have what he's having.

Il n'est pas assez vieux pour avoir ce qu'il a.

 

[jcw]

maybe we can add back clt to cdg

 

[bigbusboy]

maybe we can add back clt to cdg

CLT will see more transatlantic. CDG along with FCO are being discussed. LHR was on tap, but we sold our other slots not too long ago to BA.

 

[AlleghenyVista]

Selling that second LHR slot was crazy, and espically to BA. Dont they have enough slots at LHR? LOL. Anyway, I really hope that in the future we can get it back. Dropping the 757 PHL-LGW, and replacing it with a second PHL-LHR would be nice.

I really dont see CLT getting anymore transatlantic flying until 2010. Only 5 A330-220's are coming on line next year, and I think 3 of them arent until the 4th Q of 2009. Using those birds on super long hauls, like TLV, from PHL make more sense. Hopefully the powers that be in Tempe will use those planes on new routes to places that make money like DXB,JNB and NRT. Just my two cents.

 

[SegmentKing]

Doesn't the company also have to abide by the pilots' transition agreement, and have 2 based in PHX since the -200s are growth aircraft?

If so, I wonder if they will hit Asia or Europe first...

 

[nycbusdriver]

Doesn't the company also have to abide by the pilots' transition agreement, and have 2 based in PHX since the -200s are growth aircraft?

If so, I wonder if they will hit Asia or Europe first...

They don't have to actually base them in PHX or operate them from there. They could conceivably offer phantom bids for the airframes that should have gone to PHX and just pay-protect the pilots who get the awards.

 

[FutureUScapt]

CLT will see more transatlantic. CDG along with FCO are being discussed. LHR was on tap, but we sold our other slots not too long ago to BA.

Do you know the time frame that's being discussed for these routes? Last I heard, this was not in the near-term plans but more along the lines of 2010-2011.

Hopefully the powers that be in Tempe will use those planes on new routes to places that make money like DXB,JNB and NRT. Just my two cents.

While those would be nice, JNB is too long and DXB would probably be severely weight restricted if its even possible. From what I recall, the PHL-PEK route was going to be wieght-restricted if flown with a 332 and that's shorter than JNB and DXB. There are still several other cities (GRU, EZE, CAI, IST) that might be possible especially given the potential *A feed

 

[az_wild727]

Some of the things they could with the A332 is put it on PHL-ATH and free up a 767. They could use the A332 to Moscow (probably DME since Star Alliance member carriers chose DME over SVO). Moscow could also be done with a 767, but I'm leaning towards A332. PHX-NRT would be fine for the A332 but the O/D traffic is rather weak, and with 3 major Asian gateways (of course LAX/SFO, but I also consider SEA a pretty big gateway to Asia), US wouldn't get all the connecting traffic. PHL-NRT is shorter by about 100NM then PHL-PEK so A332 would have to be weight restricted. I'm guessing NRT will come along with the A350's. I've said it so many times and I won't go whining about it, but I'd love to see a US Airways 767 make it's way to WAW. They should go for it this summer before CO and DL start up something of their own. Eastern Europe is best served by LO from WAW and OS from VIE, although BMI is definitely growing in the region from LHR after purchasing BMED. Aside from the above, I think TLV will do well, so that was a solid choice for US Airways.

Thank you to those who turned this into a very neat conversation and saved a thread from going down the drain.

-Kinglobjaw

 

[flyingcat]

With DL/AF able to operate either sides metal and share the costs/profits it makes sense that they would downgauge the flight if the currect aircraft is too large.

Conversely if things improve again a larger DL or AF plane may fly the route.

I would not characterize this as a classic win if anything the agreement makes them a much tougher opponent. This could allow them to also throw a 757 on PHL AMS after the merger.

Speaking of the 757 it has been rumored that DL may utilize the ETOPS 757 on more routes to CDG.

Cities mentioned are BWI, BDL, PIT, BOS, EWR, and IAD.

PIT and BOS will strike right at the heart of US international connecting market share. Ironically such new routes will garner much support from the relevant airports/cities (BWI,PIT) as their opinion of US is not exactly stellar.

 

[FutureUScapt]

PIT and BOS will strike right at the heart of US international connecting market share. Ironically such new routes will garner much support from the relevant airports/cities (BWI,PIT) as their opinion of US is not exactly stellar.

Any connecting traffic US receives from BOS is likely lower yield as there are already plenty of non-stops available from BOS-CDG (AF, AA in high season), although in general, your point is true.

I bet all the PIT folks would especially love the return of non-stop TATL flights!

 

[zethya]

With DL/AF able to operate either sides metal and share the costs/profits it makes sense that they would downgauge the flight if the currect aircraft is too large.

Conversely if things improve again a larger DL or AF plane may fly the route.

I would not characterize this as a classic win if anything the agreement makes them a much tougher opponent. This could allow them to also throw a 757 on PHL AMS after the merger.

Speaking of the 757 it has been rumored that DL may utilize the ETOPS 757 on more routes to CDG.

Cities mentioned are BWI, BDL, PIT, BOS, EWR, and IAD.

PIT and BOS will strike right at the heart of US international connecting market share. Ironically such new routes will garner much support from the relevant airports/cities (BWI,PIT) as their opinion of US is not exactly stellar.

Where did you hear that AF is leaving PHL because of unacceptable loads on the 343? In fact both US and AF had almost identical 90+% loads all through spring/summer of 2007 and normal TA 60-70% loads most of the Winter. Further, even though Detroit is a Sky Team hub, their single AF flight significantly underperformed PHL in most months. Where did you hear DL is going to replace the PHL-CDG service with a 757? Why would they give away 30% of their historically proven revenue to US by using a smaller aircraft - other than in winter? Further, why risk flying a 757 to Paris, which will be almost wholly dependent on O&D, when the competition uses a 333 and offers essentially equal services? Where did you hear that DL is "rumored" to start CDG- PIT, BWI, EWR, IAD and BDL? IMO, very, very Unlikely particularly for the first 4. These types of swaps are going to become more and more common as alliance parnerships become more like mergers, especially on Trans-Atlantic. This PHL-CDG swap probably has little, if anything, to do with the AF route performance and more to do with DL's strategic plans.

 

[PA18]

With DL/AF able to operate either sides metal and share the costs/profits it makes sense that they would downgauge the flight if the currect aircraft is too large.

Cities mentioned are BWI, BDL, PIT, BOS, EWR, and IAD.

PIT and BOS will strike right at the heart of US international connecting market share. Ironically such new routes will garner much support from the relevant airports/cities (BWI,PIT) as their opinion of US is not exactly stellar.

The new DL Terminal A in BOS was designed to accommodate a Customs and Immigration area, to serve not only DL, which had some BOS international flying at the time, but also AF. (I also heard a rumor about the late SR using that terminal.) All of this was pre-9/11, of course.

The point is, the infrastructure should be in place in that terminal, should the new DL/NW/KL/AF juggernaut choose to exploit it.