AA say's don't think so...

[AANOTOK]

Reply  from Paul D. Jones Senior Vice President and General Counsel,
 
American Airlines
To David Virella , TWU-ATD  AA System Coordinator
This will respond to your letter dated June 24, 2014, to Steve Johnson and me regarding the employer-matching portion of the prefunding contributions that were made to the TWU VEBA. The employee-paid portion of the VEBA contributions were returned to active employees in accordance with the collective bargaining agreements the TWU reached with American Airlines in September 2012, and, by the terms of those agreements, the employer prefunding contribution is to be distributed to active employees only “upon successful resolution of the Section 1114 process … after termination of the Trust Agreement.” Neither of these preconditions to distribution of the employer match has been met at this time.
As you know, the Company filed an adversary proceeding with the bankruptcy court seeking a declaratory judgment that medical benefits offered to its retired employees were not vested and could be modified or terminated. A favorable ruling from the court would allow the Company to reduce or eliminate the cost of the medical coverage it pays on behalf of retired employees, including retirees from TWO-represented work groups. If it prevails in that litigation, the Company plans to distribute the employer-match portion of the prefunding contribution to active employees represented by the TWU if and to the extent those funds exceed what is necessary to pay for benefits for TWU retirees. In April2014, however, the bankruptcy court denied the Company‘s summary judgment motion in the adversary proceeding with respect to most groups of retirees, including the TWU retirees, and, to date, the Company has not been successful in eliminating or significantly reducing the medical expenses it pays for TWU retirees. That litigation is not yet concluded, and, if no settlement in that case can be reached, the Company will have to decide when and whether to request trial dates from the bankruptcy court.
In the meantime, as we mentioned when we met with you last week, if there is evidence that demonstrates that our interpretation of the CBA is wrong and that the Company is obligated to distribute the employer-match portion of the prefunding contribution regardless of whether it prevails in the adversary proceeding, we are willing to reconsider the position that we have taken in this matter. Please let me know if you would like to share any such evidence.
 
Thank you for getting together with Steve and me last week. We both enjoyed meeting you and your team
 
Love to get NYer and Realty's spin on this...and WeAAsles, your opinion as well.

 

[Realityck]

 
Reply  from Paul D. Jones Senior Vice President and General Counsel,
 
American Airlines
To David Virella , TWU-ATD  AA System Coordinator
This will respond to your letter dated June 24, 2014, to Steve Johnson and me regarding the employer-matching portion of the prefunding contributions that were made to the TWU VEBA. The employee-paid portion of the VEBA contributions were returned to active employees in accordance with the collective bargaining agreements the TWU reached with American Airlines in September 2012, and, by the terms of those agreements, the employer prefunding contribution is to be distributed to active employees only “upon successful resolution of the Section 1114 process … after termination of the Trust Agreement.” Neither of these preconditions to distribution of the employer match has been met at this time.
As you know, the Company filed an adversary proceeding with the bankruptcy court seeking a declaratory judgment that medical benefits offered to its retired employees were not vested and could be modified or terminated. A favorable ruling from the court would allow the Company to reduce or eliminate the cost of the medical coverage it pays on behalf of retired employees, including retirees from TWO-represented work groups. If it prevails in that litigation, the Company plans to distribute the employer-match portion of the prefunding contribution to active employees represented by the TWU if and to the extent those funds exceed what is necessary to pay for benefits for TWU retirees. In April2014, however, the bankruptcy court denied the Company‘s summary judgment motion in the adversary proceeding with respect to most groups of retirees, including the TWU retirees, and, to date, the Company has not been successful in eliminating or significantly reducing the medical expenses it pays for TWU retirees. That litigation is not yet concluded, and, if no settlement in that case can be reached, the Company will have to decide when and whether to request trial dates from the bankruptcy court.
In the meantime, as we mentioned when we met with you last week, if there is evidence that demonstrates that our interpretation of the CBA is wrong and that the Company is obligated to distribute the employer-match portion of the prefunding contribution regardless of whether it prevails in the adversary proceeding, we are willing to reconsider the position that we have taken in this matter. Please let me know if you would like to share any such evidence.
 
Thank you for getting together with Steve and me last week. We both enjoyed meeting you and your team
 
Love to get NYer and Realty's spin on this...and WeAAsles, your opinion as well.
 

 
 
I will be glad to respond to the letter:
 

1. The bankruptcy Judge did not rule on the termination of the Retiree Medical Plan 
2. The 1114 Hearings have not been concluded
3. The new AA (ex-USAir) management hasn’t decided yet if they will sue to terminate  the Retiree Medical Plan

 
 
I believe the “active employee” participants are entitled to the Company match since the negotiated termination
of the plan was a de facto termination which entitles them to it, although It may have to be addressed in either Arbitration or the Court.
 
Just because the Company says something doesn’t make it true or a correct interpretation of the contract.
Incidentally, they said the same thing to the flight attendants, who have the same language, and they also intend to fight.

 

[CMH_GSE]

And does anyone have the response from the international yet?

 

[enough already]

Their response Is "They can do that, Brother"...

 

[screwed again]

I stand firm in my belief that your prefunding check will be distributed on the third Friday of never!

 

[swamt]

We'll get'm next time boys...

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Reply  from Paul D. Jones Senior Vice President and General Counsel,
 
American Airlines
To David Virella , TWU-ATD  AA System Coordinator
This will respond to your letter dated June 24, 2014, to Steve Johnson and me regarding the employer-matching portion of the prefunding contributions that were made to the TWU VEBA. The employee-paid portion of the VEBA contributions were returned to active employees in accordance with the collective bargaining agreements the TWU reached with American Airlines in September 2012, and, by the terms of those agreements, the employer prefunding contribution is to be distributed to active employees only “upon successful resolution of the Section 1114 process … after termination of the Trust Agreement.” Neither of these preconditions to distribution of the employer match has been met at this time.
As you know, the Company filed an adversary proceeding with the bankruptcy court seeking a declaratory judgment that medical benefits offered to its retired employees were not vested and could be modified or terminated. A favorable ruling from the court would allow the Company to reduce or eliminate the cost of the medical coverage it pays on behalf of retired employees, including retirees from TWO-represented work groups. If it prevails in that litigation, the Company plans to distribute the employer-match portion of the prefunding contribution to active employees represented by the TWU if and to the extent those funds exceed what is necessary to pay for benefits for TWU retirees. In April2014, however, the bankruptcy court denied the Company‘s summary judgment motion in the adversary proceeding with respect to most groups of retirees, including the TWU retirees, and, to date, the Company has not been successful in eliminating or significantly reducing the medical expenses it pays for TWU retirees. That litigation is not yet concluded, and, if no settlement in that case can be reached, the Company will have to decide when and whether to request trial dates from the bankruptcy court.
In the meantime, as we mentioned when we met with you last week, if there is evidence that demonstrates that our interpretation of the CBA is wrong and that the Company is obligated to distribute the employer-match portion of the prefunding contribution regardless of whether it prevails in the adversary proceeding, we are willing to reconsider the position that we have taken in this matter. Please let me know if you would like to share any such evidence.
 
Thank you for getting together with Steve and me last week. We both enjoyed meeting you and your team
 
Love to get NYer and Realty's spin on this...and WeAAsles, your opinion as well.
 

I thought I would highlight a few key areas of that letter that stand out. First was "Trust Agreement" If the company cannot terminate the trust agreement or reach settlement then everyone has to go back to the original language of the trust and what was it's intention. "To fund retirement medical" The key word being retirement or when you retire. 

The second word was distribute. One way to distribute would be to cut you a check directly. Another way would be again referencing the trust language to compensate your Medical Insurance Agent when you retire. Could that scenario wind up being an ultimate outcome?

The two other highlights tell me that the two parties are in negotiations to see if they can come to an agreement without having to go all the way to trial. When and or if it reaches that stage is when we'll get a clearer picture of what is going to occur with our company matching portion?

The company has many litigation's still pending before the court in regards to their bankruptcy. Don't think just because they were allowed to emerge that all of those issues have been resolved. They have not.

 

 

[paul1]

STAND DOWN BROTHER YOUR OUT OF LINE

 

[MetalMover]

"Will strike if provoked".......HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

 

[Bob Owens]

I thought I would highlight a few key areas of that letter that stand out. First was "Trust Agreement" If the company cannot terminate the trust agreement or reach settlement then everyone has to go back to the original language of the trust and what was it's intention. "To fund retirement medical" The key word being retirement or when you retire. 

The second word was distribute. One way to distribute would be to cut you a check directly. Another way would be again referencing the trust language to compensate your Medical Insurance Agent when you retire. Could that scenario wind up being an ultimate outcome?

The two other highlights tell me that the two parties are in negotiations to see if they can come to an agreement without having to go all the way to trial. When and or if it reaches that stage is when we'll get a clearer picture of what is going to occur with our company matching portion?

The company has many litigation's still pending before the court in regards to their bankruptcy. Don't think just because they were allowed to emerge that all of those issues have been resolved. They have not.

 

My concern is from the language of the letter is that the company appears to be continuing to draw from the fund to pay retiree medical, how much of that activity is eating into what is ours? 
 
The fact is as part of their efforts to sell this deal they told us that when the BK was done we would get our money, that there was no question about it, and that is not the case.
 
The Trust agreement is not clear as to how we get the money, only that the company doesn't if they opt out of it. As everyone knows I had problems with the language because I suspected that it left the door open for the company to attempt to do what they are now doing. But unfortunately too many people chose to listen to Overspeed and the International and here we are nearly two years after the agreement was signed without our money.
 
If the money has to stay in my individual fund till I retire, where AA is completely severed from the fund, then I'm disappointing but I could live with it, it will continue to draw interest and I can use that money tax free for its intended purpose, to pay for Medical when I retire. My concern, validated by this letter, is the company will attempt to find a way to use my money to pay its obligations. 

 

[DallasConehead]

Softening us up for the deal huh Bob?

 

[MetalMover]

Softening us up for the deal huh Bob?

Somehow, someway, we will not see the rest of our refund.....The writing is on the walls.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

Somehow, someway, we will not see the rest of our refund.....The writing is on the walls.

And the twu will help you realize that the company can do that...

 

[MetalMover]

And the twu will help you realize that the company can do that...

They tried their best.

 

[bob@las-AA]

 
Reply  from Paul D. Jones Senior Vice President and General Counsel,
 
American Airlines
To David Virella , TWU-ATD  AA System Coordinator
This will respond to your letter dated June 24, 2014, to Steve Johnson and me regarding the employer-matching portion of the prefunding contributions that were made to the TWU VEBA. The employee-paid portion of the VEBA contributions were returned to active employees in accordance with the collective bargaining agreements the TWU reached with American Airlines in September 2012, and, by the terms of those agreements, the employer prefunding contribution is to be distributed to active employees only “upon successful resolution of the Section 1114 process … after termination of the Trust Agreement.” Neither of these preconditions to distribution of the employer match has been met at this time.
As you know, the Company filed an adversary proceeding with the bankruptcy court seeking a declaratory judgment that medical benefits offered to its retired employees were not vested and could be modified or terminated. A favorable ruling from the court would allow the Company to reduce or eliminate the cost of the medical coverage it pays on behalf of retired employees, including retirees from TWO-represented work groups. If it prevails in that litigation, the Company plans to distribute the employer-match portion of the prefunding contribution to active employees represented by the TWU if and to the extent those funds exceed what is necessary to pay for benefits for TWU retirees. In April2014, however, the bankruptcy court denied the Company‘s summary judgment motion in the adversary proceeding with respect to most groups of retirees, including the TWU retirees, and, to date, the Company has not been successful in eliminating or significantly reducing the medical expenses it pays for TWU retirees. That litigation is not yet concluded, and, if no settlement in that case can be reached, the Company will have to decide when and whether to request trial dates from the bankruptcy court.
In the meantime, as we mentioned when we met with you last week, if there is evidence that demonstrates that our interpretation of the CBA is wrong and that the Company is obligated to distribute the employer-match portion of the prefunding contribution regardless of whether it prevails in the adversary proceeding, we are willing to reconsider the position that we have taken in this matter. Please let me know if you would like to share any such evidence.
 
Thank you for getting together with Steve and me last week. We both enjoyed meeting you and your team
 
Love to get NYer and Realty's spin on this...and WeAAsles, your opinion as well.
 

Everyone received the total amount they contributed to to the fund, for medical after they retire, and the taxable gains from that amount that AA invested on our behalf.
 
AA swat relief from continuing to pay the retire's medical, thus the Company was seeking a definition to the language of the "agreements" that retires were not vested.
 
The judge did not rule in favor of AA. IF the ruling was in favor of AA, then the retiree medical could be terminated, the benefits would be stopped, and then the remainder of the fund would be distributed.
 
I was not offered prefunding when I was hired, so I have no interest in what ever out come this may have.
But, in talking with co-workers that are retiring soon, they said, after talking to HR, you get nothing, nada, zip. No help what so ever covering medical expenses. Just think of those who are already retired. In order for you to get that small prefunding check, the plan has to be terminated, but you through the current retirees under the bus.