AA must either beat JetBlue or die

[Hopeful]

Then let AA die already!
JetBlue may be the flying public''s best friend, but I had the fortune of speaking to a couple of JetBlue mechanics at JFK on their ramp.

Simply put, the grass isn''t all that green on that side for an employee.

 

[MAH4546]

And don't forget FLL. jetBlue is now offering a daily FLL-LGB run and FLL-OAK will start-up this winter. Now, while they do not directly compete with AA, this does become compietition to thier MIA-SFO/LAX and FLL-LAX runs. I have already noticed plenty of $252 rtn fares on FLL-LAX ever since jetBlue started FLL-LGB, and despite FLL's "leisure" status, FLL-LAX has always been a money maker for AA because they provided invaluable west coast service for all the F500 companies in the FLL area like Citrix, AutoNation, and Office Depot.

Over at SJU, jetBlue is moving to the newly refurbished terminal (Terminal B, I think) and will have 12 gate counters. They are suposedly going to be adding a twice daily LGB-FLL-SJU service. Sound familiar?

 

[AirplaneFan]

I''ve been thinking about writing this for awhile. JetBlue has added a 6th and 7th flight between LGB and JFK. JetBlue has also added a 3rd IAD - LGB flight. It would appear that there is nothing AA is doing is working against their trans con competitor. All AA is apparently doing is pulling passengers out of LAX to fly out of LGB and save $500 in the process.

AA has also been unsuccessful keeping JetBlue off the JFK - San Juan routes as they now run 5 nonstops per day.

Some posters claim that JetBlue is just going after the cream. That is right, but its the AA cream that they have successfully obtained. No more $2,000 dollar round trip tickets to be sold out of New York to the West Coast, JetBlue has cratered the yields so it can make money on the routes. However AA can not.

Boston is apparently next. The Boston Globe had an interview with Neeleman last week and he is reported to say that JetBlue is coming to Boston area soon (either Boston or Manchester).

Jet Blue is successfully whipping the majors without the advantage of a network. As they build a network it will both drive JetBlue''s costs lower and make them even more advantagous to fly.

AA has burned so much customer goodwill that they no longer are a preferred carrier for a great number of passengers. Even when AA matches JetBlue prices, enough passengers are choosing to fly JetBlue that they are running a 87% load factor. Essentially if AA can not win a battle against JetBlue than they seem to be headed for either massive pay cuts to bring their costs in line with JetBlue or spiral into extincition.

 

[MCI transplant]

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On 7/12/2003 7:07:57 PM Hopeful wrote:

Let AA die already!

Then they can move on and drive Delta, Continental, UAL, UAir, Northwest all out of business and fly the little Airbuses and Embraers all over the world.

And after they are the only airline left flying, they can raise fares.

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Easy Hopeful! Your going over the deap end! I know, it''s all TWA''s fault!!!!!

 

[Hopeful]

Let AA die already!

Then they can move on and drive Delta, Continental, UAL, UAir, Northwest all out of business and fly the little Airbuses and Embraers all over the world.

And after they are the only airline left flying, they can raise fares.

 

[tomahawk58]

With all due respect, this is such such an inane topic! Jetblue has what, about 40 airplanes; american has 700plus. Do you really think jetblue will be running american out of business any time soon? Jetblue is a startup carrier( though one that is off to a good start). let''s check back in five to ten years after(if) they''ve reach the economy of scale of the other major players. I wish the folks at jetblue all the best, and if they break out of their niche, i''ll still wish them the best, but the airline business isn''t won in two to five years of operations.

 

[Hopeful]

Jetblue is still a new carrier, however successful it is now.

Southwest has been around for 30+ years because they have stuck to their same plan since they started flying. They never needed frequent flier mileage or TVs in each seat. You won''t see them removing seats
anytime soon.

 

[AirplaneFan]

I disagree. First of all Jet Blue runs their planes 50% longer than AA per day. Secondly, it does not take many low-fare seats to crater the yields on a route. Before SW came to in 1999, the average fare between Hartford and Chicago was $450. UAL and AA ran 11 flights a day between the two cities. SW added two flights and the average fare fell to $150. So adding a few low cost seats to a route can have a disproportinate affect on fares.

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On 7/12/2003 842 PM tomahawk58 wrote:

With all due respect, this is such such an inane topic! Jetblue has what, about 40 airplanes; american has 700plus. Do you really think jetblue will be running american out of business any time soon? Jetblue is a startup carrier( though one that is off to a good start). let''s check back in five to ten years after(if) they''ve reach the economy of scale of the other major players. I wish the folks at jetblue all the best, and if they break out of their niche, i''ll still wish them the best, but the airline business isn''t won in two to five years of operations.

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[Upsgnr]

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On 7/12/2003 842 PM tomahawk58 wrote:

With all due respect, this is such such an inane topic! Jetblue has what, about 40 airplanes; american has 700plus. Do you really think jetblue will be running american out of business any time soon? Jetblue is a startup carrier( though one that is off to a good start). let''s check back in five to ten years after(if) they''ve reach the economy of scale of the other major players. I wish the folks at jetblue all the best, and if they break out of their niche, i''ll still wish them the best, but the airline business isn''t won in two to five years of operations.

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It''s not inane - American is quaking in their boots because they know what a threat Jet Blue is. AA knows they can''t compete against the likes of Southwest, Jet Blue, etc. Why do you think AA brutally quashed Legend? If Legend had gotten a foothold in Dallas, AA would have been toast.

The airline business is won one flight at a time, and if it takes 2-5 years, that''s what it takes.

 

[MAH4546]

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On 7/12/2003 8:30:57 PM Hopeful wrote:

Jetblue is still a new carrier, however successful it is now.

Southwest has been around for 30+ years because they have stuck to their same plan since they started flying. They never needed frequent flier mileage or TVs in each seat. You won''t see them removing seats
anytime soon.




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1) jetBlue is removing seats for technical reasons. There is obviously a benefit passed on to the consumers, but new FAA weight regulations, as well as important wheelchair storage space, make removing the seats very economically viable.

2) Southwest has an FF programme, Rapid Rewards. jetBlue''s FF program, trueBlue, is nice, but not at all rewarding. To get one free roundtrip, you''d have to fly four trans-continental flights. Or you could fly seven round-trips between the North and Florida or thirteen of thier short-haul services. And that''s only when you book all of them over the net. Book them over phone or through a travel agent and double the amount of flights you have to take. Plus, they all have to be taken within the same 365 day period. Its not the most generous at all, but what it does very well is keep flyers loyal, which is important, all at a very measly expense.

 

[Hopeful]

I wonder how many posters here who wish for AA's demise are stock holders in AA looking to make a quick buck. So if AA goes under, is JetBlue going to take over the South America, Europe, Hawaii, and Japan flying with those little Airbuses and Embraers?

If Jetblue takes out 100 seats on each aircraft, they might make it to LHR from JFK.

You are all forgetting one thing. AA and the TWU have raped us to the point that they can make money charging low fares. The bottom line is that the passenger wants low fares. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. AA has low fares. If people are so upset and dissatisfied with AA and its service, then American should have pulled out of SJU completely by now and JetBlue should be flying an hourly shuttle there. Same thing with transcon.

 

[AAplanesareold]

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On 7/13/2003 8:29:53 AM Hopeful wrote:

And the reason that AA is adding seats is because the load factor is pretty high. At JFK you can''t get a seat on an aircraft bound for ANY destination.

AA flies mostly widebodies to SJU and THEY ARE ALL FULL! Since JetBlue has 5 flights a day to SJU and they are kicking AA''s ass, then AA should not be filling any of its aircraft. Simple arithmetic.

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That''s not accurate. SJU does not get mostly widebodies. AA flies A300s, 757s and 737-800s into SJU.

AA has been cutting back on seats and planes into SJU for some time now.

Another poster said JetBlue will be flying LGB-FLL-SJU soon twice a day. You better get real comfortable waiting for that one. JetBlue isn''t flying into FLL now since they know they can''t get a decent load factor on the A320s (without giving the seats away). Even running it through to LGB is not going to work for them, since there is just not enough West Coast to SJU traffic. When TWA had a nonstop LAX-SJU flight, the loads were horrible. The only reason TWA did it, was because the government of Puerto Rico subsidized the route.

JetBlue doesn''t want/need government subsidies for their routes.

Unless Neeleman has changed his mind on that (which you never know), JetBlue will not do FLL-SJU anytime soon. Maybe with the RJs in 2006 or something.

Look for BOS-SJU twice a day when JetBlue gets into BOS. Maybe even MCO-SJU next year, just to mess with Song which started MCO-SJU flights recently.

Getting back to AA, they do need to figure out a way to stop JetBlue. I have friends at AA in SJU sales and in DFW sales. They tell me the same thing:

AA is very worried about losing market share to JETBLUE!!!

 

[Hopeful]

I''m aware of the Southwest FF program, but I did say they never NEEDED the FF miles or TV''s in each seat. They have been successful with no marketing ploys.

 

[Hopeful]

And the reason that AA is adding seats is because the load factor is pretty high. At JFK you can't get a seat on an aircraft bound for ANY destination.

AA flies mostly widebodies to SJU and THEY ARE ALL FULL! Since JetBlue has 5 flights a day to SJU and they are kicking AA's ass, then AA should not be filling any of its aircraft. Simple arithmetic.

 

[TWAnr]

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On 7/13/2003 8:53:19 AM AAplanesareold wrote:

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On 7/13/2003 8:29:53 AM Hopeful wrote:

At JFK you can''t get a seat on an aircraft bound for ANY destination.

AA flies mostly widebodies to SJU and THEY ARE ALL FULL!

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That''s not accurate. SJU does not get mostly widebodies. AA flies A300s, 757s and 737-800s into SJU.

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Hopeful was writing about JFK. Look at the schedule, AA runs six A300s and one 763 a day between New York and San Juan. He is correct on this one.