Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
So let's outsource our executives to China or India, or even Vietnam. It really doesn't matter where an executive is based, does it?
AA Mechanics in Europe
- Thread starter Bob Owens
- Start date
So let's outsource our executives to China or India, or even Vietnam. It really doesn't matter where an executive is based, does it?
Excellent suggestion! Its implementation can only lead to industry-leading wages for the rank and file employees.
I think that federal law, 49 U.S.C. § 40102(a)(15), requires that the President and two-thirds of the board of directors and other managing officers be US citizens. So if you can find enough US citizen ex-pats in foreign countries willing to do it for less, then have at it. Like I said, it will obviously result in higher pay for you.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #18
I beleive they also do third party work.
The company has never indicated any desire to have different rates between OH and the line.
Sure it can be shipped but is it really cost effective? $80 fuel also comes into play now, along with turn times and quality. Arpey said he didnt know if in house came out to more or less when you add it all up. The fact is, even with all the bad press AA has been getting our OH turns out the best product. I base that on what Ive seen at other places that I worked at over the years. You also have to consider that not every mechanic is paid as a mechanic. The average hourly rate for the entire maintenance group is $23.68, according to the companys own figures.
The fact is there's a cost factor to shipping work overseas, Jet Blue is building a base down in Florida so they can bring more work in house and other carriers are looking to do the same. AA has its bases already built, stocked and staffed with experienced and productive workers, this gives them an edge over competitors who have to start from the ground up.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #19
They do a lot of third party work. More than most, if you took out SFO then they do as much as all of the rest of AA Domestic Line Maintenance.
The company has never indicated any desire to have different rates between OH and the line.
Over the years we've heard other suppositions as to why werent paid what we should be getting. "Oh if it wasnt for Fleet Service we would pay you more"-FALSE. Why should we believe that any further separation would alter AAs willingness to part with money?
Sure OH can be shipped but is it really cost effective? $80 fuel also comes into play now, along with turn times and quality. Arpey said he didnt know if in house came out to more or less when you add it all up. The fact is, even with all the bad press AA has been getting our OH turns out the best product. I base that on what Ive seen at other places that I've worked at over the years. You also have to consider that not every mechanic is paid as a mechanic. The average hourly rate for the entire "maintenance group" is $23.68, according to the companys own figures.
Jet Blue is building a base down in Florida so they can bring more work in house and other carriers are looking to do the same. AA has its bases already built, stocked and staffed with experienced and productive workers, this gives them an edge over competitors who have to start from the ground up.
Euro Meatball
Member
- Apr 8, 2010
- 61
- 1
Greetings All
I heard about Bob’s comments and they do irritate me. This has caused me to find this website and join. I am seeing a lot of other interesting conversations and remarks going on, so I hope at times to give some of my personal insights on various subjects.
But, to Bob’s forum.
IRRITATION.
Why this sudden interest on what’s happening in Europe? Did you show any interest when I was earning $8/hr and you were earning$14/hr in bad old days, or even before that?
You are correct that we have other extras that you do not have in the States. But like many of your remarks this is taken out of context (you even forgot that in some euro countries, tools have to be provided by the company for you, so that you can do your job)
Point 1.
The extras. Vacation, footwear, etc.
Would AA, Delta, United, etc (the US companies) give more to us than you, if they did not have to???? This is the LAW in the relative countries. It applies to all people that that work in an industrial environment. It NOT something the companies give from the kindness of their hearts. It is something, in my younger days, I demonstrated for, was baton charged by mounted police and water cannoned. Our industrial rights were hard earned. So where you Bob??.
Point 2
Our skills are a commodity. The companies do not pay more than they need to. Pay is compared to the other airlines in the relative countries. Trust me, we are not overpaid. Also, we are not exactly “swimming “ with A&P in Europe. Pay scales reflect this. Market forces!!
Point 3
Comparing rates pay per hour is useless. If something needs to be compared, try buying power. How much does a shopping trolley of food cost, putting a roof over your head, and how big it is, cost of cars and fuel, etc. Quoting what costs are in the tinsel part of a city is pointless. Try the suburbs and dormitory towns. You mention what is the London Weighting, which is an allowance paid to originally certain civil servants, teachers, airline employees, policemen, and now to others in London. It is designed to help these workers with the cost of living in London, which is notoriously higher than that of the rest of the UK. Its purpose is to encourage key workers to stay in London and is regulated by London government. Not something that the companies like or really want to pay out.!!!! Market forces !!!!
Point 4
You also point out that, by example, FRA has only two AA flights a day. Like other euro stations, they actually make a profit for AA; otherwise they would have been closed down years ago. Why ????. For example, I think FRA handles 14 flts a day, CDG I think is 10 flts. AA are paid big bucks for it .It also means that the Technicians are also qualified on non AA type aircraft, as well as those companies computer systems, deal with their standard of maintenance of the aircraft, crew attitude, etc. Equally what would be the cost to AA to have third party maintenance at these stations with Point 2 in mind? How many other airline approvals do you have Bob ???
I could go on and on. As a union rep in a previous life I wonder who you really are. You do not seem to focus on the ball and are causing other people not to stay focus on the ball. Management love that.
For the others
Thought of the day. Does anybody see that there might be relationship between the need for human factors training, the lowering standard of maintenace, and the proliferation of MROs doing cheaper work? Ask the management/bean counters if they do???
Best of luck on the pay and conditions issues
I heard about Bob’s comments and they do irritate me. This has caused me to find this website and join. I am seeing a lot of other interesting conversations and remarks going on, so I hope at times to give some of my personal insights on various subjects.
But, to Bob’s forum.
IRRITATION.
Why this sudden interest on what’s happening in Europe? Did you show any interest when I was earning $8/hr and you were earning$14/hr in bad old days, or even before that?
You are correct that we have other extras that you do not have in the States. But like many of your remarks this is taken out of context (you even forgot that in some euro countries, tools have to be provided by the company for you, so that you can do your job)
Point 1.
The extras. Vacation, footwear, etc.
Would AA, Delta, United, etc (the US companies) give more to us than you, if they did not have to???? This is the LAW in the relative countries. It applies to all people that that work in an industrial environment. It NOT something the companies give from the kindness of their hearts. It is something, in my younger days, I demonstrated for, was baton charged by mounted police and water cannoned. Our industrial rights were hard earned. So where you Bob??.
Point 2
Our skills are a commodity. The companies do not pay more than they need to. Pay is compared to the other airlines in the relative countries. Trust me, we are not overpaid. Also, we are not exactly “swimming “ with A&P in Europe. Pay scales reflect this. Market forces!!
Point 3
Comparing rates pay per hour is useless. If something needs to be compared, try buying power. How much does a shopping trolley of food cost, putting a roof over your head, and how big it is, cost of cars and fuel, etc. Quoting what costs are in the tinsel part of a city is pointless. Try the suburbs and dormitory towns. You mention what is the London Weighting, which is an allowance paid to originally certain civil servants, teachers, airline employees, policemen, and now to others in London. It is designed to help these workers with the cost of living in London, which is notoriously higher than that of the rest of the UK. Its purpose is to encourage key workers to stay in London and is regulated by London government. Not something that the companies like or really want to pay out.!!!! Market forces !!!!
Point 4
You also point out that, by example, FRA has only two AA flights a day. Like other euro stations, they actually make a profit for AA; otherwise they would have been closed down years ago. Why ????. For example, I think FRA handles 14 flts a day, CDG I think is 10 flts. AA are paid big bucks for it .It also means that the Technicians are also qualified on non AA type aircraft, as well as those companies computer systems, deal with their standard of maintenance of the aircraft, crew attitude, etc. Equally what would be the cost to AA to have third party maintenance at these stations with Point 2 in mind? How many other airline approvals do you have Bob ???
I could go on and on. As a union rep in a previous life I wonder who you really are. You do not seem to focus on the ball and are causing other people not to stay focus on the ball. Management love that.
For the others
Thought of the day. Does anybody see that there might be relationship between the need for human factors training, the lowering standard of maintenace, and the proliferation of MROs doing cheaper work? Ask the management/bean counters if they do???
Best of luck on the pay and conditions issues
Or views of people that pretend to be whoever, and from where ever their little heart desires.
This is the beauty of the Internet.
Don't you agree meatball, buddy?
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #23
Why? Because its contract time that’s why. The company is making claims and comparasions and the fact that you guys are in the $40+ range helps our argument. Why would you object to that? It only helps your bargaining position if our wages go up. If you are what you say you are then you would want to share such info.
How much vacation do you get for your first five years?
Five to 10?
10 to 17?
17 to 25?
25 to 30?
After 30 years?
How much sick time do you get? We get 5 days per year, we can bank them but when we run out we are on our own.
How much paid time do you get if you are hurt on the job, we get 10 days.
Does the company launder your uniforms?
How much do you pay for medical insurance? We have to pay for coverage plus copays, deductibles and what they don’t feel like paying if they feel the doctor charges too much, based on what doctors in Tulsa Oklahoma charge.
How many hours is your standard week? Ours is 42.5 and we are paid for 40.
Thanks for the info. How are my comments out of context?
You must be really old, been a long time since I’ve seen that, but I’m willing to do it if that’s whats needed. Workers of the world Unite!!!
Well is it market forces or the law of the land? Here the law of the land suppresses wages. By informing our guys what you have and how you got it I hope to encourage my peers to do the same as you did to get what you got.
I’ve searched the Internet. There are 7 cities where it costs more to live than New York in 2009, based on US Dollars. 1 Tokyo, 2 Osaka, 3 Moscow, 4 Geneva, 5 Hong Kong, 6 Zurich, 7 Copenhagen, London was number 16
I didnt point out that FRA only has two flights, FWAAA did, I pointed out that they do a lot of 3P work. I was actually defending their existance at AA.
We work on whatever shows up, normally we work on North American doing most of their engine changes and B-checks but we’ve done work for various carriers, whatever shows up and we are told to work on we do. I’ve done Engine changes for some Chech airline, Pakistan Airlines where number two blew, took out number one and put holes in the wing and fuselage, we fixed all of it, IDGS for AlItalia (they were so happy we did it so quickly they offered us all bottles of wine) and many others I cant recall. I admit, I think I pointed that out previously, that you guys do a lot of 3p work, and we’ve been willing to do the same. Here the requirements are not as high. I have my A&P so I can pretty much work on anything, heavy turbine, business jets, recips, helicopters etc as long as I have the paperwork. We dont have to be type certified. Our unions never saw a need to elevate the profession and our laws make it difficult to change that.
Hows that? The ball is compensation. You seem to be looking for an argument. Like I said why wouldn’t you want to see us make more? It can only help you if you are indeed a mechanic. You have no need to wonder who I really am, its out there for everyone to see. You are the one who chooses to remain anonymous.
Thanks. What you fail to realize is that we are to you what El Salvador and China are to us. Upward trends in wages, bouyed by favorable laws in Europe, benifit all workers, even you. The more informed we are of what you have the better it is for you since we will be pushing to get that too. Companys never say "Everybody else gets this but we dont want to give it to you", they do however say ""None of our competotors has this, and its a financial burden for the company, so we have to take it from you". If you are a mechanic you should be blasting us for undercutting you.Nowhere did I say you were overpaid, in fact I think that you are probably underpaid. If someone from China or El salvador came here citing our wages I would tell them that we are underpaid and as Aircraft mechanics they should expect more than squating in an adobe shack with a corrugated roof and a few bowls of rice and beans for the work they perform. I would tell them to go to our website and show all their coworkers what they should be getting, or better yet what you are getting.
