AA forecasts $800 Million revenue from cargo in 2014

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

read the last sentence you quoted from me SLOWLY.

......... .................

so, again, tell me the story here if AA/US carried $830M in cargo last year and will pull off $800M this year?

 oooops, sorry I messed up
......... .................
 
BTW - the newspaper article which the op provided the link to stated that cargo revenue will be over $800 this year.
Other interesting things from the article which you may not have grasped:
 
"Cargo revenue was up 4.6 percent in the first quarter and cargo ton miles, a measure of overall volume, was up almost 12 percent compared with the first quarter of 2013."
 
"WholeTruth"TM
 

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/07/04/5949641/kangaroos-lobster-priceless-artifacts.html#storylink=cpy

 

[traderjake]

as for education, I've got Parker beat hands down.

I also have more wisdom. I've never spent a night in a jail or even been arrested.

 
I'll take Parker's bank account and experience over your education and wisdom any day.

 

[Kev3188]

I also have more wisdom. I've never spent a night in a jail or even been arrested.

Meh. Give it time...

Live a little.

 

[robbedagain]

is that DL wisdom  or just the know it all wisdom?  also I dont think most of us have been arrested either 

 

[WorldTraveler]

is that DL wisdom or just the know it all wisdom? also I dont think most of us have been arrested either

Given that most of us HAVEN’T been arrested or spent time in person, it is precisely because Parker has that it will dog him for all of his life.
But Kev doesn’t seem to think it is so bad…..

Meh. Give it time...
Live a little.

Perhaps you can tell us how many arrests we would find on your record and how many nights you have spent in the slammer.

I'll take Parker's bank account and experience over your education and wisdom any day.

I doubt very seriously – in fact, I am certain – that he isn’t offering you ANY of it.
He does have the skills to manipulate people to get them to take the industry’s lowest pay and have them keep quiet…. That is one skill I don’t have and don’t want either.

oooops, sorry I messed up
......... .................

BTW - the newspaper article which the op provided the link to stated that cargo revenue will be over $800 this year.
Other interesting things from the article which you may not have grasped:

"Cargo revenue was up 4.6 percent in the first quarter and cargo ton miles, a measure of overall volume, was up almost 12 percent compared with the first quarter of 2013."

"WholeTruth"TM


Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/07/04/5949641/kangaroos-lobster-priceless-artifacts.html#storylink=cpy

No, I am well aware that cargo revenue has improved – noticed I mentioned it above. But it also doesn’t change that the industry as a whole will put assets where profits can be found and whatever was gained is washed down the drain.

Using your math, $200 million is, as you said, just a rounding error - Post#15 http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57357-aa-forecasts-800-million-revenue-from-cargo-in-2014/?p=1101374
So why are you all worked up about AA in the Pacific? Care to spin that?

Also, if US/AA has overcapacity to * hubs on continental Europe, what is stopping them from shifting that to the UK? Afterall, as you say: capacity will move to the UK because that is what the industry does. Advantage AA loser DL

Rest of you post, you're squawking / repeating the same old stuff like a parrot. I won't write a 1000+ word post to respond to WN + Wright Amednment and winning in N. TX and DCA beacuse it's been covered in other threads - but you conveniently chose to ignore that and keep on repeating you DL uber alles narrative. Yaaaawwwn!

$100M may be a rounding error and perhaps $200M is too but repeating the same performance in the Pacific year after year is not a rounding error… it is an intentional willingness to lose good money trying to chase the hope that AA can make money competing in the Pacific against much stronger carriers.
People do lose investments because there is risk.
And you miss the point that other carriers could easily reallocate capacity from continental Europe to the UK if the UK is really that strong.
DL and UA both have larger aircraft that serve continental Europe which could be switched to the UK in partnership with their JV partners.

Meanwhile, an enormous depression is settling over Brazil and if the World Cup can bring happiness to Germans and if happiness translates into financial success, then the German economy might not be as bad off after all.
Not even Volkswagen can make 5 Gols in 5 minutes.
Security guards for Germans in Brazil are sold out.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

$100M may be a rounding error and perhaps $200M is too but repeating the same performance in the Pacific year after year is not a rounding error… it is an intentional willingness to lose good money trying to chase the hope that AA can make money competing in the Pacific against much stronger carriers.
People do lose investments because there is risk.
And you miss the point that other carriers could easily reallocate capacity from continental Europe to the UK if the UK is really that strong.
DL and UA both have larger aircraft that serve continental Europe which could be switched to the UK in partnership with their JV partners.

Meanwhile, an enormous depression is settling over Brazil and if the World Cup can bring happiness to Germans and if happiness translates into financial success, then the German economy might not be as bad off after all.
Not even Volkswagen can make 5 Gols in 5 minutes.
Security guards for Germans in Brazil are sold out.

 
According to your math (which is suspect at best) $200 million is 1/2 per cent of AA revenue.  By parroting the negative performance over the Pacific you're making it sound worse than it really is, in the hope that people will buy that there is no hope competing against DL (stronger carriers).  Even a newbie can see "WholeTruth" after reading about 3 of your posts.  A corporation losing money is not wise, but losing 0.5% of your total revenue is not as bad as you make it out to be no matter how many times you repeat it or in how many number of words
 
Regarding the re-allocation of capacity:  I think you're being ignorant.  You yourself have stated that US flying across the Atlantic is too heavily focused on continental EU and specifically * alliance hubs.  You yourself have stated that there will have to be rationalization of the network.. So where oh wise one do you think those assetts could be re-allocated?  Actually, I haven't been following the EU economy lately, but if Germany is in the dumpster that usually means UK is only marginally better if at all and France and Italy are in the crapper big time (yeah, I know that means Spain is in the crapper too where IAG has big exposure).
 
I don't think World Cup victory/happiness correlates with increased travelling.  Even if it did, DL is still only the largest USA-based airline in Germany outside of FRA***, which means it will not see any of the money
 
***translation:  mighty DL is second fiddle to LH/UA
 
Have the Brazilians started rioting yet?

 

[Rogallo]

Wow, what an A** Whipping!

 

[CMH_GSE]

$800M really isn't much to get excited about. Sure, it's a lot of zeroes, but do the math...There are ~180 widebody flights between the two certificates, plus another ~70 operating with narrowbodies into markets where there's a demand for overnight freight.$800M is entirely attainable if every widebody carries $11,000 in revenue freight, and each narrowbody carries $5,000.Can't say that is a very lofty goal, guys. Sure, it's soaking up belly space that would otherwise go empty, but it certainly undercuts the old adage that "cargo pays the way" we hear so often...

Thanks E, that was kind of my point.
It's nice that they made it but the amount of resources spent to get it, makes it look like chump change when compared to the revenue from simply imposing a fee, and then expanding them and increasing them.
No facilities needed, no man power, no special airplanes or extra gate space.

 

[WorldTraveler]

According to your math (which is suspect at best) $200 million is 1/2 per cent of AA revenue.  By parroting the negative performance over the Pacific you're making it sound worse than it really is, in the hope that people will buy that there is no hope competing against DL (stronger carriers).  Even a newbie can see "WholeTruth" after reading about 3 of your posts.  A corporation losing money is not wise, but losing 0.5% of your total revenue is not as bad as you make it out to be no matter how many times you repeat it or in how many number of words
 
Regarding the re-allocation of capacity:  I think you're being ignorant.  You yourself have stated that US flying across the Atlantic is too heavily focused on continental EU and specifically * alliance hubs.  You yourself have stated that there will have to be rationalization of the network.. So where oh wise one do you think those assetts could be re-allocated?  Actually, I haven't been following the EU economy lately, but if Germany is in the dumpster that usually means UK is only marginally better if at all and France and Italy are in the crapper big time (yeah, I know that means Spain is in the crapper too where IAG has big exposure).
 
I don't think World Cup victory/happiness correlates with increased travelling.  Even if it did, DL is still only the largest USA-based airline in Germany outside of FRA***, which means it will not see any of the money
 
***translation:  mighty DL is second fiddle to LH/UA
 
Have the Brazilians started rioting yet?

No, the math is very much accurate because there really is no math involved on my part. The DOT publishes carrier performance statistics by region and AA's losses in the Pacific are public knowledge.

EVERY airline loses a certain amount of money - on flights in the middle of the week, during off peak periods of the year, in markets where competitors are attacking and you have to fight back.

what is unprecedented is that AA has been willing to lose hundreds of millions of dollars per year to develop a particular region of the world. No other carrier has done that while other parts of their network are making money and while that carrier is also making money in other parts of their network.

The reallocation of capacity refers to OTHER carriers such as DL and UA and their JV partners who could easily move some of their capacity from continental Europe to the UK - IF the UK is really doing that much better.

What this really says is that the bubble that the airline industry has ridden, that AA emerged from BK in, and that it now has to restructure the company in could very well be ending - and all of the great talk about how well that AA would integrate its workforce and grow into other areas of the world will go up in smoke.

And let's not forget that AA still has to face enormous new capacity in key markets in N. Texas and DCA.

The risk is ALWAYS there that the industry's good runs when they occur could come to the end.

I have a feeling that we are seeing the beginning of a much more difficult environment than AA and Parker want to acknowledge - cargo and passenger.

What took place today makes the US team's performance against Germany look simply brilliant in comparison to Brazil.

 

[CMH_GSE]

No, the math is very much accurate because there really is no math involved on my part. The DOT publishes carrier performance statistics by region and AA's losses in the Pacific are public knowledge.EVERY airline loses a certain amount of money - on flights in the middle of the week, during off peak periods of the year, in markets where competitors are attacking and you have to fight back.what is unprecedented is that AA has been willing to lose hundreds of millions of dollars per year to develop a particular region of the world. No other carrier has done that while other parts of their network are making money and while that carrier is also making money in other parts of their network.The reallocation of capacity refers to OTHER carriers such as DL and UA and their JV partners who could easily move some of their capacity from continental Europe to the UK - IF the UK is really doing that much better.What this really says is that the bubble that the airline industry has ridden, that AA emerged from BK in, and that it now has to restructure the company in could very well be ending - and all of the great talk about how well that AA would integrate its workforce and grow into other areas of the world will go up in smoke.And let's not forget that AA still has to face enormous new capacity in key markets in N. Texas and DCA.The risk is ALWAYS there that the industry's good runs when they occur could come to the end.I have a feeling that we are seeing the beginning of a much more difficult environment than AA and Parker want to acknowledge - cargo and passenger.What took place today makes the US team's performance against Germany look simply brilliant in comparison to Brazil.

I'm trying to understand how this bubble bursting and these very bad things on the horizon you speak of for AA, are just for AA to hurdle and no other airline, especially DL?

Is there a never ending "good run" in the industry that only DL is allowed to live in?

 

[700UW]

Lets see:
 
Who runs the world's Largest Airline?

Doug Parker or WT?
 
Who has held various executive positions at AA, NW, HP, US and now AA again?
 
Doug Parker or WT?
 
Who is an active airline executive?
 
Doug Parker or WT?
 
Who is a retiree collecting a frozen pension check and claims to know more than the CEO of the world's largest airline?
 
Doug Parker or WT?
 
Who did the Secured Creditors, Unsecured Creditors and AA Employees want as CEO?
 
Doug Parker or WT?
 
Who pulled off the merger?
 
Doug Parker of WT?

 

[WorldTraveler]

700
you've thrown your loyalty nicely behind Parker
It is precisely because of your willingness to separate what is good for the people from what is good from the company that has made the IAM Parker's lapdog and left US rampers far lower than they would have been if they had a solid union negotiating for them.



CMH GSE
I never said it was an AA-specific event, if it occurs.

Downturns in the industry happen rather frequency and effect many players.

It might hurt the European airlines worse if it comes - and lots of economists think it is coming.

But AA is the only airline that is trying to finish a merger which gets a whole lot more complicated if you have to cut a bunch of jobs because the capacity can't be sustained.

Further, AA has the Wright Amendment and DCA divestiture issues to deal with; no one else has anything else even close coming on the horizon.

Further, AA's most profitable entity (Latin America) is now the target of low cost carrier growth.

Finally, AA has an enormously large order book of new aircraft and just exited BK which makes it a lot to modify leases that are no longer needed based on a business plan that was just finalized a relatively few months ago.

so, no, downturns don't affect just AA... but AA has unique risks that could make the timing of a downturn much worse for AA than other carriers.

 

[commavia]

Still trying to divide the world into the AA management "lapdogs" and the pro-Delta "true believers," with no room for anyone in between.  If there's a more profound hallmark of faulty, baseless arguments, I don't know what it is.
 
Based on recent experience, it appears to me that many at AA are genuinely trying to move past the "heads-I-win-tails-you-lose, us-versus-them" mentality and trying to work together so everyone gets a bigger piece of a bigger pie.  Some, sadly, still appear to be using the pulpit of internet discussion forums to try and divide everybody up in a blatant attempt to find a more receptive audience for mindless anti-AA blather.  I'm glad this strategy appears to be failing - badly.
 
Some people are still stuck in the past - the past where AA unions and management couldn't agree on anything (as opposed to just most things), and where Delta ruled all.  Now AA's management and unions appear to still not trust each other, but at least they're moving together in the same (generally positive) direction - in and of itself a huge improvement.  And AA is on track to report a massive profit.
 
Times they are a changin' ...

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I'm trying to understand how this bubble bursting and these very bad things on the horizon you speak of for AA, are just for AA to hurdle and no other airline, especially DL?
 
 

Let's see if I can summarize the world according to DL:
 
1)  AA @ MIA is in trouble because LCCs will grow from south FL to latim america and when, not if but when DL sets up MIA-LatinAmerica operations AA might as well shut the lights off on North Terminal /  Concourse D.
2)  In DFW AA is in trouble because WN with 16,yes that's sixteen gates at Love Field along with VX's 2 gates and DL's upcoming flights to ATL will be the end for AAs top 20-25 markets in north TX.  I won't even mention that DL skyteam partern KE is killing AA on filghts to Asia from DFW
3)  Speaking of Asia, AA sucks across the Pacific.  It obviously can't compete with UAL out of ORD nevermind SFO, AA can't compete with other Asian carriers in LAX, and there is an airline that is going to absolutely crush everybody out of SEA flying to Asia.
4)  Speaking of LAX:  despite the fact that AA operates out of terminal 4, the AE remote terminal just picked up a couple gates in terminal 6 and will have gates in TBIT, there is an airline there that despite having less real estate showed the highest growth rate (in terms of adding seats) and more importantly, processess more passengers per minute via its gates than AA.  Again, AA is toast in LAX.
5)  I won't even mention NYC becasue AA died there the second DL decided to set up shop.
6)  CLT - too close to ATL, won't go there.
7)  PHL - maybe, but just by its presence up the road in NYC, it really doesn't matter what AA does there, it's irrelevant.
8)  DL has surrounded ORD with MSP and DTW, so anytime it wants it could kill not only AA but UA too.
9)  I won't talk about Europe, because as you know, there is an airline that flies the B767-400 to LHR - you know, the airplane that sold a whopping 38 airframes to primarily 2 airlines, only losers bought the overweight and oversized B777s.  Anyways, DL knows how to use the B767-400 properly and along with its slutty (Virgin) JV partner will put a serious hurt on AA/BA/1-world at LHR.
10)  That leaves only PHX as a possibility where AA could thrive, but only until DL decides it needs a southwestern hub.
 
Hope that clears it up for you.

 

[robbedagain]

frugal,  I don't know bout anyone else on here but that sure as hell clears the air for me!