Aa Flowbacks Are Having Training Problems

[InclusiveScope]

From the APA 11/7 update......


EAGLE FLOW-THROUGH TRAINING: After learning that five of the first eight flow-back pilots from American to Eagle experienced training difficulties, the APA National Training Committee met with the Eagle MEC National Officers and the October flow-back classes currently in RJ training. The purpose of this meeting was to explore the differences between American Airlines and American Eagle training. We are satisfied that there is no hidden agenda within the program and, as a matter of fact, our pilots are highly complimentary of the quality of instruction and the training staff. The APA Training Committee will soon post further details about the training environment and the differences from AA training.

 

[AAviator]

Hmmm, Eagle instructors, Eagle checkairmen, Eagle sim partners. They're playing against a loaded deck.........

 

[Cleared Direct]

Hmmm, Eagle instructors, Eagle checkairmen, Eagle sim partners. They're playing against a loaded deck.........

That's funny your own union said they are convinced there is no hidden agenda, and the flow backs even complimented the quality of training at Eagle.

When the flow through pilots went to AA they had AA instructors, AA check airmen, and AA sim partners. They certainly did not have as many having trouble in training at AA as they are at Eagle now.

The facts are that we do not have a train to proficiency policy at Eagle like you do at AA. Believe me, I wish our training department were more like AA's training department. We have a point system with absolutely no forgiveness.

Your response to your own union's hotline is simply a knee jerk reaction with no truth or substance. You might want to spend a little more time educating yourself on the drastic differences between the 2 training departments before you make such a quick gut response.

 

[AAviator]

Oh cleared D, there you go again offering suggestions to "educate". As for the point system, who administers, and calls the points? The same guy that has the controls to add a 50 kt crosswind inside the marker on a single engine ILS to minimums? I know what you're saying, but come on now. The AA guys are flowing back to the left seat at Eagle. The AE guys that flow to AA have a number for what 1.5/2 years before they set foot on the property to an F/O slot? Puh-lease.

Inclusivescope, in bringing this up, has a hard-on for the APA and AA pilots. Nothing more.

 

[AAviator]

Then again, most of thses guys are Kudwa's retreds, so just maybe its true!

 

[Winglet]

Was there ever any doubt? This is exactly what I expected to happen. And BTW, the bit about complimenting the training isn't what I've heard from first hand sources. I guess some of them didn't know (or care) how many cycles per second that the windscreen wipers make in low and high settings. Just a precusor of things to come on the line, I guess. I suppose that in a few years, assuming that AA's still around and it comes to interviewing new hires, the mainline guys won't forget how they were treated at AE.

Still trying to find a reason to be optimistic. Talk about a disfunctional corporation.

 

[Cleared Direct]

And BTW, the bit about complimenting the training isn't what I've heard from first hand sources. I guess some of them didn't know (or care) how many cycles per second that the windscreen wipers make in low and high settings.

I suppose that in a few years, assuming that AA's still around and it comes to interviewing new hires, the mainline guys won't forget how they were treated at AE.

Wingless,

Your alleged first hand sources are bogus. The problems are not with the oral exams. The problems are with the flying.

"When AA interviews new hires..."

Yea that is about as bogus as your first hand sources. It's not going to happen for a long time if at all. Even if they did, the flow throughs don't go through an interview.

"... the mainline guys won't forget how they were treated at AE."

Nor will the Eagle pilots forget how your current BOD chose to deal with the Eagle pilots in the "Unity" campaign. Below is another thing Eagle pilots haven't forgot:

Click Here for APA's old spokesperson: F. Lee Bailey

The facts are that if the flowbacks are being treated unfair in training in any manner, than it should not be tolerated. I believe APA had some concerns before they were clearly shown what happened.

 

[jetdryvr]

The FAA, Company, APA, and ALPA have investigated this and found no wrong doing. Our training department is staffed with professional, qualified, and outstanding instructors. AE pilots including new hires have not had problems with this program, I personally found it to be one of the easiest transitions I have gone through with the noumerous aircraft I have flown.

The FAA has frequently voiced concerns about te flowbacks and I wonder if flowback arrogance and lack of respect for regionals and the truly qualified and professional pilots that fly there cost them a check ride.

We do not train you until you pass it is expected of you. Hopefully when these guys and gals come out to the line they check their attitude at the door. The FO's they will be flying with will be professional and help them out I am sure as they transition to AE and a new aircraft but do not forget that most of us will have about 2 or 3 times the amount of time and experience than the average flowback and several more years flying in the airlines.

Lets hope we all get it along and fly safe and quit throwing threats around about not forgetting. The old saying the pot calling the kettle black, not throwing stones in a glass house, come to mind.

 

[planemech669]

Being merely proficient is a scarey thought. I much prefer the points. Totally objective and without fogiveness much like the way things are in real life. However both systems let a few slip through and that really makes me wonder.....

 

[skyangelnflight]

Nor will the Eagle pilots forget how your current BOD chose to deal with the Eagle pilots in the "Unity" campaign. Below is another thing Eagle pilots haven't forgot:

this seems to justify winglets and AAviator's original statement???

Hmmm, Eagle instructors, Eagle checkairmen, Eagle sim partners. They're playing against a loaded deck.........

 

[jetdryvr]

That would explain why APA's, FAA's, and ALPA's investigation revealed nothing wrong. How about the one that not only failed training but has lost his ATP after observation by the FAA and is being required to complete a 709 ride to prove he is qualified to hold it?

We all make mistakes in training but seems like the Eagle system that does not rely on mere proficiency or train you until you pass has proven to be a problem for all those highly qualified, better than most pilots that AMR employs at AA.