Last I checked, Honduras and Costa Rica are both still safely located on the North American continent...
As I said about 10,000 words ago... "Latin America" is a pretty broad definition from Bermuda to Tierra Del Fuego.
Honduras and Costa Rica are both part of DOT Latin America in part because labor does not want to say that aircraft are being sent for maintenance in a part of the world where they don't speak English but which is in the same category as the US.
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Commavia,
The longer you post the more your nature becomes evident just as it did with EOlesen.
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It is apparent that the image Tech posted above is completely representative of you.
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I am sorry you grew up with the notion that the only way for “you” to win is for someone else to lose but the world is full of people who recognize that “they” and what they care about are not the only things on the planet, still figure out how to succeed in the presence of others who sometimes can do things better than they, and who manage to be able live in their strength of who they are rather than having to tear someone else down in order for “you” to look good.
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The airline industry is highly competitive; every publicly traded US airline lists that as a risk in their public disclosures which they file with the DOT, including AA and DL.
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AA and DL and others do not believe like you that someone else to lose in order for them to succeed. Both carriers were strong proponents of deregulation and have prospered because of it. While each carrier has its faults, they recognize they have to fight for every passenger they carry.
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Regardless of what you want to believe, AA has no illusions about having Latin America all to itself. Where you and other a.net style fan boys lose your credibility (and you clearly do have positive things to contribute) is when you argue that so-and-so won’t win but my team will.
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First, it has been asserted that flights from Atlanta to secondary markets in South (and in general Latin) America can't work because, in general, they haven't. That's a fact.
We can stop right there because that is categorically false.
I’m not sure how you justify “general” but you either serve a market or you don’t. AA and DL both started service to non GIG-GRU cities about the same time; IIRC AA might have been a month or two ahead of DL – but both carriers have started and maintained service outside of GIG/GRU and both have maintained it.
If you want to reduce the argument to whether carriers have served cities outside of GIG or GRU or not, then the only correct answer is that AA and DL have both served cities outside of GIG and GRU; CO, UA , and US have not.
If the definition of secondary cities in the context of Brazil are cities outside of GIG and GRU, then not only does DL serve secondary cities in Brazil but they also serve secondary cities in Latin America because Brazil is part of Latin America.
While you rushed to try and defend AA’s size in Latin America and Brazil, you apparently overlooked the fact that no one ever debated the fact that AA was the largest airline in Latin America (in fact I acknowledged multiple times) and that MIA was the largest gateway to Latin America.
But since your apparent worldview cannot accept that someone else can have ANY part of something which “you” have, you careened into a tirade – which you persist at that ATL is “nothing” compared to MIA with respect to Latin America. Again, no one said ATL is on the verge of overtaking MIA. But ATL IS the 2nd largest gateway to Latin America – and your continual insistence that everything else outside of MIA is nothingness demonstrates either your lack of understanding about the industry or you immaturity in being able to accept that the world contains more than you.
DOT data shows that DL’s ATL-BSB flight in the most recent month of DOT data boarded more passengers than AA’s flight to SSA-REC even though DL’s flight operated fewer frequencies. The LF on AA’s MIA-SSA/REC flight has been running ten points lower than what DL has been running on ATL-BSB according to the DOT.So, making statements that DL has failed while AA has succeeded belies the fact that, among ex-GRU/GIG destinations, only AA’s MIA-CNF flight has grown to the point that it has surpassed everything DL is doing. Even if you don’t want to hear about the financials regarding the industry, no one is going to accept an assertion that operating more flights to carry fewer passengers is a win, esp. if the “fewer operations” generate more revenue.
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Since FOR and REC which DL served are generating comparable boardings for AA in REC and SSA, perhaps the evidence points to the fact that the markets of NE Brazil are not as large and as able to generate traffic as you and others want to believe.
You see, the secondary cities in Brazil that are doing well for either airline are those that have a very larger population (which CNF does) or cities where there are lots of connections to other flights inside of Brazil.
What has made a difference in the ability of secondary cities to succeed is the partnership with Gol, which AA and DL both share. Even AA’s new MIA-BSB flight shows a large double digit percentage of AA’s traffic is connecting beyond BSB to other destinations in Brazil just as is occurring on DL’s ATL-BSB flight. AA and DL also connect a significant amount of traffic to/from their US and global networks.
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You do realize that it was DL that added BSB service first, don’t you? AA is adding the market after seeing DL’s success – which is exactly what is expected when DOT data is make available.
Even AA’s backbone MIA-GRU route connects double digit percentages of passengers at GRU to other destinations in Brazil.
This is not a debate about AA in general, its overall network performance, nor the total lack of aggressiveness or creativity on the part of AA network planning.
Of course you don’t want to deal with anything other than your count of cities on a route map but the fact is that adding cities without being able to generate some level of acceptable returns for stockholders reduces AA to throwing dAArts at a dAArtboAArd, something I know full well doesn’t do – nor does any other airline that has profit as even part of its motive for existence.
AA, like DL, has developed its Latin America network, including Brazil, with profit motives in mind. AA might be taking a longer term view of when they expect those profits to come but they do expect profitability at some point. IN the meantime, any of us who understand the business understand that you sometimes have to make short term financially negative decision in order to reach a long term goal. The fact that DL cancelled some of its routes and operated others on a seasonal basis while AA obtained average fares that were well below levels in markets like ORD-FRA that AA they subsequently cancelled makes it all the more clear that AA has pursued market growth and share shift strategies at the expense of profit maximization.
Secondly, on a related and newsworthy note, AA and Delta jointly filed on Friday to modify their applications so as to reduce the amount of GIG-eligible frequencies each requested, and increase the amount they use from the more restrictive non-GRU/GIG pool, for their new flights.
Yes, I said that would be the case here.
There are enough frequencies available for AA and DL to get all they requested w/ this route case and there are still almost half of the available frequencies left over. The fact that DL previously served MAO should be of no consequence.
AA and DL are not afraid of competing against each other. If you have followed US-Brazil route cases for very long, you know that AA and DL have both quickly dismissed with the formalities as they have each amended their applications, just as they did here, in order to accommodate each others desires within the legal framework of the US-Brazil treaty.
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You surely also noted that AA is not proposing to start its MIA-MAO service for six months or more after DL restarts ATL-MAO AND AA is only proposing 4X/week IIRC while DL is proposing 7X/week. IF AA was really interested in knocking DL out of the market, they would have advanced the startup of their flights and increased their flights to the same number of frequencies as DL.
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Apparently, AA and DL have figured out that there CAN be two players in the market and BOTH can grow together.
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I see that you are not a “regular” to this forum. May I extend the invitation for you to participate on this forum. Your insights will be quite useful as long as you can understand that two or more entities can exist and thrive side by side, just as AA and DL have learned in Brazil.
