Rumor has it that AA is looking at the A319 to replace the MD80 fleet. I heard this earlier several times, but it seems that it might be more than just a rumor. I figured that if AA wants to replace the MD80 they should look at the A321 instead. It holds around 180 Pax in a two class configuration. The A319 holds considerably less. Too bad the 717 production has ceased. That would have been a perfect replacement. Made in the USA and it would have saved American jobs at Boeing. We will see in time if this is true. By years end something should surface on a new aircraft order.
A319 to replace MD80?
- Thread starter 1AA
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The Drunken Duck
Member
- Mar 20, 2004
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I doubt they are going replace the MD80 any time soon. AMR has negative shareholder equity. It would seem to me that AMR should strengthen the balance sheet first and wait for Boeing to announce a replacement for the 737, which I suspect they will focus on after the 787 program is in production.
The A321 is a dog - too heavy and not enough power. Zero chance AA ever orders it.
The A319 is like the 737-700; fine for some carriers but really not enough pax capacity considering the weight of the airframe. Much too much aluminum per seat. Same economics sank the 717.
When AA replaces the MD-80s it will be with 738s or the eventual composite replacement for the 738. In 1997, the 738 was ordered to replace the 727s and eventually the MD-80s.
What is more likely is an order for ERJs, like 190s or 195s. They're cheap, available quickly, and Embraer would offer great terms to get an order for 100-200 of them from AA. Only thing blocking that order is the APA and AA agreeing on some sort of compromise that throws out the old book rate for the F-100s and replaces it with something cheaper. Say, midway between the CRJ-700 rate at Eagle with the old F-100 rate. Those would allow AA to park MD-80s on marginal routes until Boeing replaces the 738 (and AA's finances improve).
The A319 is like the 737-700; fine for some carriers but really not enough pax capacity considering the weight of the airframe. Much too much aluminum per seat. Same economics sank the 717.
When AA replaces the MD-80s it will be with 738s or the eventual composite replacement for the 738. In 1997, the 738 was ordered to replace the 727s and eventually the MD-80s.
What is more likely is an order for ERJs, like 190s or 195s. They're cheap, available quickly, and Embraer would offer great terms to get an order for 100-200 of them from AA. Only thing blocking that order is the APA and AA agreeing on some sort of compromise that throws out the old book rate for the F-100s and replaces it with something cheaper. Say, midway between the CRJ-700 rate at Eagle with the old F-100 rate. Those would allow AA to park MD-80s on marginal routes until Boeing replaces the 738 (and AA's finances improve).
coolflyingfool
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,192
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I say that AA will go with additional 737-800s to cover the maddogs. Probably about 5 years away from the 1st md80 being sent away. If the composite 737 is available, I think AA is all over it. Fleet commonality. just my thoughts.....
Haven't some of the first Supers already been permanently parked?
AA really need to find both an M80 replacement and a 100 seater. They can't continue to have that huge gap between 70 seats in single class and 140 seats on M80s. The 321 makes no sense. It's a 739. Why not just get that? The 318 & 736 are way too heavy. Good for Frontier because of the thrust out of the mountains. That's about it. The 73G would be the best option right now for the M80. The 195 is best if it's going to be mainline...
jimntx
Veteran
Yes, but coolflyingfool was referring to parking and replacing the 80s with something else. The ones that have been parked were not replaced with anything. They represent actual reductions in seat count.
I think we are going to see more S80s parked and flying transferred to AE in the near term. Mainly because we don't currently have any position on significant 737 deliveries (as I understand it), and I do NOT see us adding Airbus a/c of any configuration.
When the composite 73s become available, I think we will be first in line or very near to it. I just hope they redesign that crappy F/C galley.
flyastrojets
Member
- Dec 22, 2004
- 78
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I doubt you will see any additional Airbus product at AA. More 737's are likely, either a few additional -800s and possibly -700s to bridge the gap until the next next generation of 737 comes along. I suspect that the EMB190/195 might be an option as well for the 100 seater should AA finally decide to fill that hole in its fleet even if it does add another a/c type to the mix. Just my opinion, nothing more. We'll see what happens. But sooner or later, AA is going to have to order an airplane.
I'm admittedly uncertain about the scope restrictions on the EMB190/195? I'm sure AA would like to fly that at Eagle if they bought the airplane, but I doubt that APA is feeling that way at all. And I don't blame them.
I'm admittedly uncertain about the scope restrictions on the EMB190/195? I'm sure AA would like to fly that at Eagle if they bought the airplane, but I doubt that APA is feeling that way at all. And I don't blame them.
AA has maxed out its permitted number of 70 seaters at 25 as allowed by the current scope clause; the 190/195 isn't permitted at Eagle at all unless the scope clause is again re-written. My hope is that AA and the APA can compromise on potential pay rates for the large Embraers that makes its mainline operation economically viable. With a few First Class seats as well (similar to the 170s at UA and DL regional affiliates that feature several F seats).
Yes, but coolflyingfool was referring to parking and replacing the 80s with something else. The ones that have been parked were not replaced with anything. They represent actual reductions in seat count.
I think we are going to see more S80s parked and flying transferred to AE in the near term. Mainly because we don't currently have any position on significant 737 deliveries (as I understand it), and I do NOT see us adding Airbus a/c of any configuration.
When the composite 73s become available, I think we will be first in line or very near to it. I just hope they redesign that crappy F/C galley.
Not going to be too much replacing AA flying with Eagle, Eagle has no aircraft on order right now.
You're saying that AA should go ahead and order them before reaching agreement with the APA? What kind of negotiating leverage would AA have then? If you're a mainline pilot - that would be great news. But stupid as AA is rumoured to be, Arpey isn't that dumb.
Here's a post from yesterday from Former ModerAAtor summing it up:
http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...st&p=408634
Don't forget that AA has already exceeded the scope 6% cap for regional flying under the bootlicking twu contract. :down:
