A captain''s pay

[ExThunderGuppy]

AlpaAv8r,

Of course you know the pilot haters will now be forced to bring out the big guns because of your articulate, well thought out response.
Any guesses as to what they might be? Greed, arrogance, and destroying the company seem to be the favorites of the day.
Does anybody have any new material? I have developed quite a thick skin over the years, and crap like Cart Pusher's and the other guy's doesn't even make me flinch. Maybe it makes them feel better. Who knows.

 

[LuAve]

My claim, was that on the ORD-PEK route, two b-class seats get blocked for pilots to have their meals. Also, that on flights over the Atlantic, less then 8hrs, we block a first class seat because we have that 3rd pilot. That's it.
Also, I am not saying that F/A's should have parity with pilots when it comes to hotels. What I am saying is that we all should stay at decent, safe and clean places good enough for AA, DAL, BA or any other airline, foreign or domestic. It is not happening now. I see where our pilots stay. Pilots for other airlines, foreign or domestic, stay with us. The Huns are at the gates and we are talking "What we won on contract negotiations" and that "It cost us so much money to get that".
Pensions, salaries and health benefits are more important then any fancy places desired by pilots or F/A's.
Also, I dont want to see any pilot at UA making Aeroflot wages. It is hard to hear, but if the market does not sustain our wages, we need to look at surviving first, or look for another job that pays as much.
We need to adapt, we need to think about our options and retirement. About survival. About bringing our laid off people back to work. When we are competing against domestic carriers that have changed the whole revenue structure, and international carriers flying the same routes, how are we going to convince "Joe and Mary Smith" to pay us twice as much because we want double the pay and double the perks? How are we going to survive if the money coming in, is less then the money being paid out? Maybe, with competition from domestic low fare carriers and foreign carriers, Delta and AA need to look at their pay structure.
Cost of living in Europe? Try living in London. Or Frankfurt. Or Paris. If you live in a small town and commute, it is cheaper everywhere, here and there, but energy, (fuel, etc), and taxes -way more then here- are the same regardless where you live in Europe. I just want us to survive. I even want any UA, AA or DL pilot to make more money then any pilot in the whole wide world! I just want commom sense to reign with regard to salaries and perks. I just want to see us healthy and growing so we can all make a living and get our furloughed pilots, (over 1000), and everyone else back to work.
And I am done with this post. This was my first time posting and I am amazed at all the rage I encountered. Fear is a terrible thing. Going to look for a rock, hide under, and wait for the end of the world. If it comes, I can always make about the same money I earn now. I heard Home Depot is hiring near where I live, and I will be able to get a 10% off on stuff to fix my small house with. I will be okay.

 

[ExThunderGuppy]

Ual Crewdesk Man,

I cringe everytime I see that quote. IMO it was very poor judgement on Dubinsky's part, and I readily admit that his remark gave the pilot group a black eye. He and Goodwin came together to create the perfect storm, but now they are both history.
I now propose that we all hold hands, sing kum-ba-ya, and nurse the golden goose back to health.

 

[ual-crewdesk-man]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/4/2003 5:54:49 PM ExThunderGuppy wrote:

AlpaAv8r,

Of course you know the pilot haters will now be forced to bring out the big guns because of your articulate, well thought out response.

Any guesses as to what they might be? Greed, arrogance, and destroying the company seem to be the favorites of the day.

Does anybody have any new material? I have developed quite a thick skin over the years, and crap like Cart Pusher's and the other guy's doesn't even make me flinch. Maybe it makes them feel better. Who knows.
----------------
[/blockquote]




O.K. Try this one out...Does anyone remember when Captain (should we even call the ALPA pilots who never fly "Captain"??) Dubinsky said, "We don't want to kill the golden goose...we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg.". Maybe it's this attitude other groups see that makes them dislike the pilot group.

 

[ual06]

In the next life ( if there is one ) , should I see the name Hall or Dubinsky, I will run as fast as I can for as far away as I can . Nor will I associate with anything their name is on today.

 

[ALPAAV8R]

[blockquote]
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On 3/4/2003 806 PM ExThunderGuppy wrote:

I cringe everytime I see that quote. IMO it was very poor judgement on Dubinsky's part, and I readily admit that his remark gave the pilot group a black eye.
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[/blockquote]


IMO the only poor judgement shown was saying it in a place where it could be publicly quoted. Anyone who thinks that it isn't the job of EVERY labor union leader to negotiate every last dime for THEIR constituency is...well, ignorant. It's management's job to work to weasel every last cent out of YOUR pocket and into the corporate coffers (while making you work more and cutting your bennies to boot), and it's the labor union's job to do the exact opposite.

It just floors me to read and hear all of the angst from flight attendants and CSR's over something that Dubinsky said that is union/management labor relations 101. It isn't supposed to be personal or emotional people - it's just BUSINESS. And that's exactly what I keep telling my union compadres too: Stop getting your knickers in a wad over management's latest idea to screw you into working more and paying you less. It's what they're supposed to do! IT'S THEIR JOB.

Dubinsky's statement is one of the most succinctly stated bald truths that I've ever heard uttered. It's just too bad that so many people can't handle the truth and would prefer a reach around or some quality glad handing...

 

[ExThunderGuppy]

Alexander,

Tsk Tsk. I can't believe you have actually resorted to using the word scum. You appear to have issues with ALPA, and might benefit from an anger management class.
You didn't do anything silly like cross an ALPA picket line did you?

 

[gogogadget]

The only thing that we all fail to realize is that throwing stones wont help. Look around, everything is changing, including job description. Travel agents are being replaced by online ticket websites, Agents at the check in are being replaced by onestop check in machines, Soon the bording process will be replaced with retinal scans eliminating that job, F/A's will be replaced with vending machines on aircraft, (a la America west) and Pilots will be replaced by laser guided remote controlled aircraft (a la the 777). The only thing that will probably still be around will be the mechanic because engines do change themselves (yet)

We are all in a self protect mode these days and by claiming that he that makes the most money should now make the least or take the greatest hit is wrong. All of our jobs are paid at their value and you can each argue the value of your own job, just as lawyers and Drs and teachers and social workers and realestate brokers(7% sucks to list you house on the MLS). The point is, no matter how much you make or how little, a paycut is a paycut and it effects us all, just in different ways, some more than others and others more than some. I fly with F/A's all the time that make more than pilots (not as a F/A, but with their education or skill or business. (It is also made abundantly clear that they do make more than us(not always)) Should they be the ones to give up their salary because they make so much more from their other job? I should hope not nore would I want them to vear the brunt of it! just their fair share, period. This same argument goes for all the groups.

Not flame bait

 

[alexander66]

UAL06, i would go one step further. If i ever saw scum Dubinski or Scum Hall i would probably do bodily harm to both of them.
What really blows ones mind is how the scum alpa pilots of UAL could follow those two down the rocky road to hell.

 

[Winglet]

"Travel agents are being replaced by online ticket websites, Agents at the check in are being replaced by onestop check in machines, Soon the bording process will be replaced with retinal scans eliminating that job, F/A's will be replaced with vending machines on aircraft, (a la America west) and Pilots will be replaced by laser guided remote controlled aircraft (a la the 777)."

BS.
1. Onestop machines will replace the routine checkin process, but there's an awful lot of people with itineraries that need to be massaged. Also, when weather or other factors interrupt the schedule, a machine alone won't be able to fix it.
2. F/As are NOT onboard primarily to serve beverages. They are there to manage emergencies and aircraft evacuations. Also, on-board medical emergencies and other unforseen contingencies need cabin leadership and action.
3. "Laser guided remote controlled 777s??!!" Not now and not ever. Maybe you'd like to ride on an aircraft without direct human intervention and leadership, but I wouldn't, nor will I ever. I can hear the PA after a serious emergency. "Hello passengers. This is your aircraft guidance technician speaking from my cubical in Chicago. I have indications of a fire in the left engine. Sorry about that. We'll do our best to get you down ok. So sit back and relax or now would be a good time to take advantage of our special in our on-board vending machines."

 

[Borescope]

[blockquote]
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On 3/4/2003 4:41:36 PM ALPAAV8R wrote:


He fails to note that UAL 737 and A320 pilots now earn less than Southwest Airlines pilots.



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[/blockquote]

But what you fail to see is that a SWA pilots WORKS hour for hour for their money. They don't have all the trip and duty rigs that pay them all that "soft" money. So if you break out the soft time and compare apples to apples the UAL hourly rate is still more considering the gross pay divided by "actual" hours flown.

 

[laxmmm]

Borescope,

I just love when guys like you give pilots a hard time for earning all of that "soft money". As a pilot, I frequently am on duty for 12 to 14 hours a day. I only get paid when I am being "productive". So in the above example I would usually be paid for 5 to 6 hours. The rest of the unpaid time is spent doing paperwork, walking from one end of the terminal to the other, or just sitting aroud waiting for my next flight. I mention this so you will understand why there are duty rigs. We are certainly not getting something for nothing. Also keep in mind that management thinks of us as airport standby reserves.
Now I couldn't help but notice your name. You must be a mechanic. If I use your implied logic then you are costing the company lots of extra money. How so you say? Well, when you walk from plane to plane, I'll bet that you get paid. When you sit around waiting for the next flight, I bet you get paid. You are only being productive when you are doing something related to aircraft mainteance yet you get paid for all of the time spent at work. What a concept, being paid to be at work!

 

[737nCH11]

SWA also has 70% fewer mechanics, so using your logic several thousand of you should hit the road.

 

[gatemech]

[blockquote]
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On 3/5/2003 6:49:06 PM 737nCH11 wrote:

SWA also has 70% fewer mechanics, so using your logic several thousand of you should hit the road.
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[/blockquote]

OUCH.

As far as I know SWA doesn't do nearly as much maintenance as UAL.

 

[Borescope]

[blockquote]
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On 3/5/2003 6:18:03 PM laxmmm wrote:

I only get paid when I am being "productive". So in the above example I would usually be paid for 5 to 6 hours. The rest of the unpaid time is spent doing paperwork
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[/blockquote]

Does that productive time include reading the USAToday behind the closed door while the AC is on A/P at 350?