9-1-04 Alpa Code-a-phone Update

[USA320Pilot]

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE - September 1, 2004

This is Jack Stephan with a US Airways MEC update for Wednesday, September 1st, with one new item.

The Negotiating Committee received a counterproposal from the Company late last night that is now available on the pilots only home page under “Negotiating Committee Information.â€￾ The Committee is currently meeting with management this afternoon and continues to evaluate the economics of current proposals. The Committee expects to continue discussions with the Company for the remainder of the day.

The MEC is currently recessed to the call of the MEC Chairman. It is not anticipated for the MEC to reconvene today, but probably some time tomorrow morning at the Key Bridge Marriott in Arlington, VA. As soon as meeting details are available, they will be announced on the code a phone and pilots only web site.

As this next meeting could very well be the discussion of a Tentative Agreement or a final proposal, all pilots are urged to attend. If that indeed occurs, the MEC will then make the determination if this final proposal/agreement would be sent to the membership for ratification.

The question still exists if a roll call vote would be utilized to keep the membership from voting on a final proposal, so pilots would be well served by attending this next meeting, or at the very least, contacting your Reps immediately and letting them know your feelings on these negotiations and your participation in this process.

Please note that this hotel does not provide transportation from the airport and that portions of the reconvened meeting may be in closed session.

As always, please refer to the code a phone and the pilots only website for the latest information on Transformation Plan Negotiations.

Please remember we have 1,879 pilots on furlough.



Thank you for listening.

 

[mwereplanes]

It is apparent with the latest company offer what is being attempted.

They have no intention of proposing anything close to a fair acceptable agreement.

They are counting on fear and the bedwetters to attempt to convince the majority of pilots represented by the MEC to send out a total piece of crap for a vote.

I am going to make this crystal clear:

I am completely convinced there will be no rank and file vote on this offer or anything remotely resembling it. Regardless of how many bedwetters show up in DCA. Regardless of the advisors. Regardless of an MEC chairman who also doesn't get it. IF the company comes to its senses then there will be a vote. If not....................................

We WILL go into C11 and let the judge figure it out. And whatever happens there happens. PHL and PIT will not be pushed by the minority of pilots and their fear.

mr

 

[El Gato]

mwereplanes, you are wrong on one thing though. It is not Chapter 11. It is Chapter 7 that will be filed. Divert to PIT, and standby to ferry to MHV...that is what is going to happen. Read the ALPA financial analysis again. What did it say was going to happen....LIQUIDATION. Hope you can survive on $30k a year with no pension at a new startup carrier, that is IF they hire you(With US Airways on your resume, they won't.) Think carefully before letting your anger guide your logic on this.

 

[Furloughedagain]

check www.airlinepilotpay.com

If this additional 35% should actually occur, then these guys won't be taking that significant a paycut to start over anywhere.

 

[Pacemaker]

.....IF they hire you(With US Airways on your resume, they won't)

[post="174846"][/post]​

Interesting point. A couple months ago on the hotel van in ALB I had a discussion with a Southwest cockpit crew on this very subject. They were both clearly insulted and annoyed that I would even suggest that SWA discriminate in any way. "We aren't that kind of company." They essentially ignored me the rest of the drive.

Still wondering, were they drinkin' the Canyon Blue Koolaide, or is there really no bias out there against hiring anyone with a UAIR background.

 

[mwereplanes]

Cat:

If it's C7 then so be it. Many of us are ready for that eventuality. Many of us.

In fact even if an agreement is reached there will be thousands of loyal employees out of work. C7 for them no matter which way this turns.

Thanks so much for your concern for my ability to survive. Some of us have prepared for this for a long time. Has YOUR head been in the sand? How long have you been in this business. I was in DFW when BNF shut down. I've been preparing since then. I'm not flying after this job. Not interested. You mistake me with the bedwetters who think that's all they can do in their lives. They are the ones who show up in DCA and whine about saving the company. It is likely beyond saving.

Fear and anger cloud judgement. I control both of those emotions very well. That's part of my job. So my judgement, as well as the majority of our pilots, is simply that we will not allow ourselves to be taken advantage of once again. And we are fully prepared for whatever happens because of our decision. Let me state that again: FULLY PREPARED. And that is why we can look the fear directly in the eye. If it shuts down then it shuts down. And I will not lose a minute of sleep over it. Guess you cannot say that.

mr

 

[robbedagain]

I agree with mwereplanes. usair will go ch11 but i think that once this inept mgmt is done raping all of the employees for what is worth it, this airline will re-emerge as a low cost carrier and a lean mean fighting machine of an airline!

 

[El Gato]

Interesting point. A couple months ago on the hotel van in ALB I had a discussion with a Southwest cockpit crew on this very subject. They were both clearly insulted and annoyed that I would even suggest that SWA discriminate in any way. "We aren't that kind of company." They essentially ignored me the rest of the drive.

Still wondering, were they drinkin' the Canyon Blue Koolaide, or is there really no bias out there against hiring anyone with a UAIR background.

[post="174848"][/post]​

Pacemaker, not currently is there a bias, but you have to take into account the effects of a Chapter 7 filing. Once that happens, US Airways employees are going to be considered "damaged goods" by other carriers. The Pilots are going to get blamed for the death of the company, and do you seriously believe that any intelligent carriers HR department is going to allow you in? They don't want whiners or troublemakers or union men. They want hard workers, people who understand that work is not about getting a free ride, or the most pay for the least work. It is about getting pay commensurate with the work done. Southwest has been a successful carrier for over 30 years now...why? Because they ask people to work hard for high pay, and that is why pilots there earn more than US pilots do. There is no "line bid sheet" crap going on there. Everything is efficient and no nonsense.

And why do they need to be "drinkin' the koolade"? Their employer treats them good. They have steady jobs. Everything is going good for them, and they are the primary reason why. Everything is going rotten for US Airways, workers are also part of the reason why. $20/hr for a lousy ticket clerk? $18/hr for a freaking aircraft cleaner? Six figure salary for a 737 captain? You don't pay those kind of wages and expect to make any money.

 

[michael707767]

Six figure salary for a 737 captain? You don't pay those kind of wages and expect to make any money.

[post="174853"][/post]​

Hmm, really? Southwest pays its 737 captains well into the six figures and they are making money. JetBlue pays its A-320 captains six figures and they make money. Airtran pays its 717 and 737 captains six figures, and they make money. Wonder how they do it?

 

[nycbusdriver]

.....Six figure salary for a 737 captain? You don't pay those kind of wages and expect to make any money.

[post="174853"][/post]​

SWA does. It's easily doable for a company with leadership that is interested in and capable of actually running an airline. I had my job bought by USAir in 1989, and there has not been anyone in the Chairman, CEO, or President position that fits that description since that time.

As far as USAirways employees being "tainted" by a liquidation. I run across pilots, mechanics, agents, etc. all the time who are former EAL, PAA, BNF, Air FLorida, etc. None of those folks were tainted by their past misfortunes of working for nitwit managers.

 

[N924PS]

Pacemaker, not currently is there a bias, but you have to take into account the effects of a Chapter 7 filing. Once that happens, US Airways employees are going to be considered "damaged goods" by other carriers. The Pilots are going to get blamed for the death of the company, and do you seriously believe that any intelligent carriers HR department is going to allow you in? They don't want whiners or troublemakers or union men. They want hard workers, people who understand that work is not about getting a free ride, or the most pay for the least work. It is about getting pay commensurate with the work done. Southwest has been a successful carrier for over 30 years now...why? Because they ask people to work hard for high pay, and that is why pilots there earn more than US pilots do. There is no "line bid sheet" crap going on there. Everything is efficient and no nonsense.

And why do they need to be "drinkin' the koolade"? Their employer treats them good. They have steady jobs. Everything is going good for them, and they are the primary reason why. Everything is going rotten for US Airways, workers are also part of the reason why. $20/hr for a lousy ticket clerk? $18/hr for a freaking aircraft cleaner? Six figure salary for a 737 captain? You don't pay those kind of wages and expect to make any money.

[post="174853"][/post]​

El Gato,


In case you were not aware of it USAirways has some of the finest employees in the industry. Were it not for their Herculean efforts the company would have failed many times over since the late '80's.

There is no question that SWA has more productive employees than USAirways, but not necessarily harder workers. Who builds the trips, determines the aircraft utilization and schedules? Management, that's who.

You insinuate that USAirways employees are about getting a free ride. Well, you will be enlightened to know that most of the employees at USAirways have been in the industry for at least 10 years and upwards of 40 years. Think they haven't worked hard to get to this point?

I don't believe for a minute that SWA or any prospective employer would discriminate based on an applicant being former USAirways. Anyone even remotely informed about the airline industry knows that the Pilots at USAirways are not the cause of Ch7. In fact, the pilots have always been the first to ante up any time the airline has needed "saving" since 1988.

Also, if you compare pay rates at any craft you will find SWA employees are highly compensated union employees.

Don't know why you have such disdain for USAirways people. I would put them shoulder to shoulder with any other airline, including SWA, as the best in the industry.

By the way, in September, a SWA B737 Captain is expected to earn $179/hr. The latest USAirways management proposal would have a USAirways Captain at $105/hr for doing exactly the same work. The pay those wages and make a lot of money. So where do you think the problem lies Pussycat?

 

[TheLarkAscending]

As far as USAirways employees being "tainted" by a liquidation. I run across pilots, mechanics, agents, etc. all the time who are former EAL, PAA, BNF, Air FLorida, etc. None of those folks were tainted by their past misfortunes of working for nitwit managers.

Agreed. Besides that fact there are employment laws on the books that prevent hiring discrimination. Perhaps felines are not covered under the same legislation?

 

[mwereplanes]

Felines also sneak around and pounce on unsuspecting prey.

Perhaps "The Cat" is a management type.

He certainly sounds like one of our incompetent VP's or middle managers doesn't he.

mr

 

[UNC HUSKER]

SWA does. It's easily doable for a company with leadership that is interested in and capable of actually running an airline. I had my job bought by USAir in 1989, and there has not been anyone in the Chairman, CEO, or President position that fits that description since that time.

As far as USAirways employees being "tainted" by a liquidation. I run across pilots, mechanics, agents, etc. all the time who are former EAL, PAA, BNF, Air FLorida, etc. None of those folks were tainted by their past misfortunes of working for nitwit managers.

[post="174860"][/post]​

Well said nyc. We have no leadership, no accountability and it does not look like we will ever see the likes of a true leader again. If this ship goes down Mr. Davis will roll over in his grave god rest his soul.....I miss the leadership we once had and the pride we all once took in our airline.... Remeber this is not only the inept managments airline it is our airline!!!!Good luck to all...

 

[El Gato]

N924PS...

By the way, in September, a SWA B737 Captain is expected to earn $179/hr. The latest USAirways management proposal would have a USAirways Captain at $105/hr for doing exactly the same work. The pay those wages and make a lot of money. So where do you think the problem lies Pussycat?

A SWA captain is working the average of 85 hours per month. A US captain has an average of 56 hours a month. Who deserves more?

If you doubt the figures I have spoken, go call crew sked and ask them. They will be more than happy to point out your shortcomings.

You have to work to make money, and you have to make money to earn money. But I suppose that doesn't apply to a US pilot, right? Cushy work rules, lax training rules....why you can just live the life of reilly as a US pilot, right?

Listen, you want $179/hr flying the line? Fine. But get rid of the crappy work rules you have, and start actually flying for a living. And I don't mean some, I mean ALL pilots. Right now, you have the senior guys doing the bare minimum a month, while there are some who blow over the limit for the month easily. You can't have that and expect to run an airline correctly. You will run into crew issues, and have end of the month staffing problems, which is what US has.

Full pay to the last day? How about Full pay for full work?