8 buck chuck

[bagboy]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Janitors-for...ml?x=0&.v=1

The airlines have had a tough decade. But with all that we have gone thru, is it too much to ask to pay your employees a livable wage. 8 to 9 dollars an hour for the employee and what is the cut to Aramark? Why not cut out the middle man and give the employees their fair share for the work done. Cleaning aircraft is dirt job that many don't care to do and the work is almost always done on third shift. These employees deserve better.
In my experience, where ever Delta and NWA have farmed out the operation, they are never able to achieve the greatest cost savings due to the fact that they remain top heavy in management. If Delta weren't such a fan of farming out its work I wouldn't be as concerned over the upcoming union vote. I wish all of my former co-workers the best of luck with the vote.

And for those of you who have never heard of 8 buck chuck, this refers to the ever revolving door that the airlines have created by paying 8 dollars an hour to their "greatest asset". We started calling them all "Chuck" for two reasons, the new employees would rarely be around long enough to get to know their real names, and second, the company would gladly chuck them out the door for the next one. When we asked management about this practice they didn't deny that this was in fact what they were doing. They would never have to pay top wages of give benefits to them. One great airline you have.

 

[Kev3188]

A sad reality, and one I don't see changing for the better.

With such things as rampant outsourcing, ready reserve, etc., I see the revolving door only spinning faster, and professionalism remaining nothing more than a fond memory.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The rush to outsource Res calls to India is a compelling example of how US-based mainline employees CAN add more value to the airline than can be obtained from outsourcing.

I firmly believe that DL's employees (including those who have joined from NW) can justify their existence based on the quality and efficiency of their work. There are many mainline employees who understand that it is their job to do high quality work and DL can see that. There are stations with mainline employees that are very well run and whose employees consistently deliver high quality work. Those stations should not be worrying about their future as DL employees.

Given that employees throughout the economy are having to justify their positions in order to remain employed, including DL and NW mgmt level employees, it isn't unreasonable to think that employees or stations that deliver high quality work will continue to enjoy the benefits of employment.

But the switch from India back to US call centers shows that US based mainline employees can deliver high quality, revenue focused work and mgmt can and will recognize and reward the employees who deliver that kind of work.

 

[tech2101]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Janitors-for...ml?x=0&.v=1

The airlines have had a tough decade. But with all that we have gone thru, is it too much to ask to pay your employees a livable wage. 8 to 9 dollars an hour for the employee and what is the cut to Aramark? Why not cut out the middle man and give the employees their fair share for the work done. Cleaning aircraft is dirt job that many don't care to do and the work is almost always done on third shift. These employees deserve better.
In my experience, where ever Delta and NWA have farmed out the operation, they are never able to achieve the greatest cost savings due to the fact that they remain top heavy in management. If Delta weren't such a fan of farming out its work I wouldn't be as concerned over the upcoming union vote. I wish all of my former co-workers the best of luck with the vote.

And for those of you who have never heard of 8 buck chuck, this refers to the ever revolving door that the airlines have created by paying 8 dollars an hour to their "greatest asset". We started calling them all "Chuck" for two reasons, the new employees would rarely be around long enough to get to know their real names, and second, the company would gladly chuck them out the door for the next one. When we asked management about this practice they didn't deny that this was in fact what they were doing. They would never have to pay top wages of give benefits to them. One great airline you have.

It will continue as long as there is a large supply of people willing to fill those jobs. If the group at that salary range (even if it is a revolving door) is providing a level of service Delta is willing to accept, then the salary will stay the same. It is simple economics.

 

[bullterrier]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Janitors-for...ml?x=0&.v=1

The airlines have had a tough decade. But with all that we have gone thru, is it too much to ask to pay your employees a livable wage. 8 to 9 dollars an hour for the employee and what is the cut to Aramark? Why not cut out the middle man and give the employees their fair share for the work done. Cleaning aircraft is dirt job that many don't care to do and the work is almost always done on third shift. These employees deserve better.
In my experience, where ever Delta and NWA have farmed out the operation, they are never able to achieve the greatest cost savings due to the fact that they remain top heavy in management. If Delta weren't such a fan of farming out its work I wouldn't be as concerned over the upcoming union vote. I wish all of my former co-workers the best of luck with the vote.

And for those of you who have never heard of 8 buck chuck, this refers to the ever revolving door that the airlines have created by paying 8 dollars an hour to their "greatest asset". We started calling them all "Chuck" for two reasons, the new employees would rarely be around long enough to get to know their real names, and second, the company would gladly chuck them out the door for the next one. When we asked management about this practice they didn't deny that this was in fact what they were doing. They would never have to pay top wages of give benefits to them. One great airline you have.

Is this thread suggesting a socialist type situation where everyone is paid the same no matter what?

 

[DalMD88]

It will continue as long as there is a large supply of people willing to fill those jobs. If the group at that salary range (even if it is a revolving door) is providing a level of service Delta is willing to accept, then the salary will stay the same. It is simple economics.

That is the simple truth. At my station, BOS, the contract cleaners are constantly turning over. I think for many of them it is a landing spot job. That is the first job they get in the US. Once they get here they get to improve their language skills and soon move to another better job. As they exit the cleaner position they help someone they know get on at Aaramark.

The planes are clean, and there is a steady supply of workers willing to work for $8 to $9. Not much is going to change. They are already getting more than minimum wage. I wouldn't expect more than that to clean seat pockets and vacuum. That was as true today as when I was 18 mopping floors on third shift for about a buck over min.

 

[concourseA]

The rush to outsource Res calls to India is a compelling example of how US-based mainline employees CAN add more value to the airline than can be obtained from outsourcing.

Interview for new rez employees:

Interviewer: Please use the following words in a sentence "pink" "yellow" and "green"

Interviewee: The phone goes "green green", I "pink" it up and say "yellow"

Interviewer: "your hired!"

 

[bagboy]

Is this thread suggesting a socialist type situation where everyone is paid the same no matter what?

No, some jobs require a bit more education like the techs, meteorologists, pilots. Some positions have a true need for experienced people to cut down on wasted time. As for management, I think just about anyone could look at emails all day and have secretaries do the real work. I have seen DL and NW outsource the work in many stations only to increase the management numbers by 3 or 4 times what is needed. In America, many of our companies are top heavy. We should look to do more to trim the fat in government, and business and return to putting the employees first.

My point in the first post was that if we would in-source more work, cut out the outsource companies that leach that are no more than parasites, we could pay employees better and retain some of the qualified and motivated help.

 

[aafsc]

It will continue as long as there is a large supply of people willing to fill those jobs. If the group at that salary range (even if it is a revolving door) is providing a level of service Delta is willing to accept, then the salary will stay the same. It is simple economics.

Your statement is true and can apply not only to aircraft cleaners but to pilots (there is a vast oversupply of thousands that would be more than willing to fly F/O in a RJ or turboprop for $20,000 a year), F/As (thousands applied at UA to replace all those senior F/As after UA duped large numbers of them into early retirement), and A&P mechanics (look at all those that crossed your picket line at NWA in addition to all those who work in the non-union hackshops and those in the third world where a 20 year experienced and licensed aircraft mechanic makes $7.50/hr with no benefits- think aeroman of El Salvador.)

While there is a revolving door with respect to aircraft cleaners, it is not always a pleasant experience for the airline; I have seen it with my own eyes. I'm a ramper for AA and used to work in a line station. Overnight aircraft cleaning was taken away from us and given to a vendor in order to "cut costs". At that time we had about 11 overnighters that had to be cleaned. The contractor was supposed to have 11 people clean these aircraft in 8 hours. The only problem was that the revolving door was revolving a little to fast because most of the time some quit by simply not showing up, they don't even call the contractor to tell them they quit; it's not like they give the contractor the customary 2 weeks resignation notice. I can remember one night in particular where only THREE showed up, the other 8 quit by simply not showing up. As a result, when it was time for the early morning departures, the planes were still trashed from the day before with some vomit in the aft lav thrown into the mix. Needless to say this resulted in delays, missed connections, and pi$$ed off passengers. At least when AA employees performed this work the planes were clean and ready to be boarded for an on time departure. I asked one of the three that did show up how much he made; it was between $6-$7 an hour. "Any medical or dental?", I asked. he said "no".It must be remembered that there is a difference between the PRICE of labor and the COST of labor. I'm not saying an aircraft cleaner should make anywhere near what an A&P makes but management and passengers need to realize you do in fact get what you pay for.

 

[tech2101]

Your statement is true and can apply not only to aircraft cleaners but to pilots (there is a vast oversupply of thousands that would be more than willing to fly F/O in a RJ or turboprop for $20,000 a year), F/As (thousands applied at UA to replace all those senior F/As after UA duped large numbers of them into early retirement), and A&P mechanics (look at all those that crossed your picket line at NWA in addition to all those who work in the non-union hackshops and those in the third world where a 20 year experienced and licensed aircraft mechanic makes $7.50/hr with no benefits- think aeroman of El Salvador.)

While there is a revolving door with respect to aircraft cleaners, it is not always a pleasant experience for the airline; I have seen it with my own eyes. I'm a ramper for AA and used to work in a line station. Overnight aircraft cleaning was taken away from us and given to a vendor in order to "cut costs". At that time we had about 11 overnighters that had to be cleaned. The contractor was supposed to have 11 people clean these aircraft in 8 hours. The only problem was that the revolving door was revolving a little to fast because most of the time some quit by simply not showing up, they don't even call the contractor to tell them they quit; it's not like they give the contractor the customary 2 weeks resignation notice. I can remember one night in particular where only THREE showed up, the other 8 quit by simply not showing up. As a result, when it was time for the early morning departures, the planes were still trashed from the day before with some vomit in the aft lav thrown into the mix. Needless to say this resulted in delays, missed connections, and pi$$ed off passengers. At least when AA employees performed this work the planes were clean and ready to be boarded for an on time departure. I asked one of the three that did show up how much he made; it was between $6-$7 an hour. "Any medical or dental?", I asked. he said "no".It must be remembered that there is a difference between the PRICE of labor and the COST of labor. I'm not saying an aircraft cleaner should make anywhere near what an A&P makes but management and passengers need to realize you do in fact get what you pay for.

That is why I qualified my post with this statement:

If the group at that salary range (even if it is a revolving door) is providing a level of service Delta is willing to accept, then the salary will stay the same. It is simple economics.

 

[SkyguyB727]

But the switch from India back to US call centers shows that US based mainline employees can deliver high quality, revenue focused work and mgmt can and will recognize and reward the employees who deliver that kind of work.

Sadly, that switch to which you refer is not happening. Companies in all industries are outsourcing more and more call center work to offshore, vendor locations. In American business, lower cost seems to supercede quality work.

 

[DAL Mech]

Sadly, that switch to which you refer is not happening. Companies in all industries are outsourcing more and more call center work to offshore, vendor locations. In American business, lower cost seems to supercede quality work.

http://consumerist.com/2009/04/delta-every...ll-centers.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...amp;refer=india

 

[bullterrier]

No, some jobs require a bit more education like the techs, meteorologists, pilots. Some positions have a true need for experienced people to cut down on wasted time. As for management, I think just about anyone could look at emails all day and have secretaries do the real work. I have seen DL and NW outsource the work in many stations only to increase the management numbers by 3 or 4 times what is needed. In America, many of our companies are top heavy. We should look to do more to trim the fat in government, and business and return to putting the employees first.

My point in the first post was that if we would in-source more work, cut out the outsource companies that leach that are no more than parasites, we could pay employees better and retain some of the qualified and motivated help.

I like the word "insourcing". With insourcing comes the responsibility of satisfying your external customers but the problem is you have to be cost effective. So how do you convince your customer that paying a little more for your services is better than paying another company less for the same service? My area has solved that equation with quality. we are in demand now at other airlines and airports.
I'll give you a hint. Leadership who believes in customer service followed by workers who believe in customer service. What an awesome combination!

 

[Kev3188]

I like the word "insourcing". With insourcing comes the responsibility of satisfying your external customers but the problem is you have to be cost effective. So how do you convince your customer that paying a little more for your services is better than paying another company less for the same service? My area has solved that equation with quality. we are in demand now at other airlines and airports.
I'll give you a hint. Leadership who believes in customer service followed by workers who believe in customer service. What an awesome combination!

What area are you in, and what measures have/did you guys take?

I agree with your last sentence; in an ideal world, that combination plays out every time. Unfortunately, DL's actions (and NW's before the merger as well) show that they are happy to just get by. Workers see that, and become discouraged. It will take a lot more than just cool buzzwords coming from upper leadership to change that. I don't speak for everyone of course, but I have to believe many of our coworkers across all divisions are ready to get to business, but feel it's somewhat pointless under the status quo.

 

[bullterrier]

What area are you in, and what measures have/did you guys take?

I agree with your last sentence; in an ideal world, that combination plays out every time. Unfortunately, DL's actions (and NW's before the merger as well) show that they are happy to just get by. Workers see that, and become discouraged. It will take a lot more than just cool buzzwords coming from upper leadership to change that. I don't speak for everyone of course, but I have to believe many of our coworkers across all divisions are ready to get to business, but feel it's somewhat pointless under the status quo.

You have a PM.