2nd Bankruptcuy Consideration

[Long Gone]

"Why are you guys picking on A320"

Because his self appreciating babbling is disgusting to intelligent people. His statements are stated as factual. They are not and his history of protecting himself is nauseating to anyone with any amount of character. Study the inaccuracies of his spew and you will see. It unfortunate the moderator doesn't exercises his regulation with a eye toward accuracy and facts.

 

[USA320Pilot]

For those in denial, click here for more bankruptcy news.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[MrAeroMan]

Let me explain this to you once again, a company cannot make an 1113 motion in court unless they file bankruptcy, then they have to follow all nine steps, can you not understand that?

Go call Sharon Levine, I believe she knows a bit more about it then you.

Kinda of funny English is the official language of USA.

Let me tell you this for the millionith time, the company has not approached the IAM for a solution on the outsourcing issue, if you dont believe me, since appareantly you dont, go call Mr Robert Roach, General Vice President of Transportation for the IAM. I will give you his # if you like.

Once gain you post things that you have no idea or clue about.

But keep trying, at least you get more original with each false statement you post.

Here is your next CEO and his Assistant.

I read his post and I don't see where he says the company will try to file an 1113 motion outside of bankruptcy. In fact he says in his post they'd file it IN Chapter 11.

What makes you think Robert Roach and the IAM aren't speaking out of both sides of their mouth? Did it ever occur to you that maybe they've decided to draw a line in the sand and use you and your fellow workers as betting chips? Maybe they've decided to look tough in negotiations with UAIR and say no to new negotiations that will help make them look more attractive to new potential organizations they may be trying to court to get them into the IAM? Maybe they're already written off the UAIR membership in hopes of getting even more members with other carriers/facilities where their main selling point will be we weren't intimidated at UAIR and we won't be intimidated here. :blink:

 

[700UW]

I am not the originator of the idea that the company has done a "good job" of documenting its argument for a potential S.1113 action and it’s likely the company will further build its case going forward.

One key point is that hte company keeps asking the IAM to address the A320 outsourcing issues and the IAM refuses. However, on the other hand ALPA has publicly said "the new plan dramatically increases the chances that the union will be willing to accept another round of wage concessions that the airline says it needs to avoid a second trip into bankruptcy."

Thus, ALPA protects itself in the press and the IAM hurts itself if a S.1113 motion is filed in bankruptcy court.

By the way, the "documenting its argument" thought came from an ALPA MEC Rep; therefore, you can take it or leave it. Regardless, there is a very real risk for all employee groups and your group has an option, just like everybody else.
Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Here it is, not that they will file outside an bk filing but they are preparing a case, they can't prepare a case until a 1113 motion is filed because the nine steps must be followed.

And as for Mr Roach and my 141M AGCs, I trust them, because if they lie, amfa will be knocking on the door in a heartbeart.

And once again the company HAS NOT approached the IAM for a solution on the outsourcing issue, but you see I explained to a320 a million times what transpired but for some reason he keeps not understanding it and posting false things.

Go read his post again.

 

[bobcat]

USA320Pilot

First of all who cares about the press. No matter what, they print what they want. I think the public has heard enough over the last few years and they know who has gotten this airline in this mess. It surely is not the employees and we do get much sympathy from the public. They know that we have been dealing with inept management, past and present.

If it came down to striking, how quickly do you think they could replace employees and how many people would be willing to cross picket lines? It wouldn't be easy and it wouldn't be pretty. A lot of passenger would be driven away if it came to that, never to return.

As far as your group striking a deal well, maybe that is the right thing for your group and maybe it's feasible. For other work groups it isn't the right thing to do and isn't feasible. For the "peons", in other groups, the worst thing they can do is vote "yes" for more concession. They would be shooting themselves in the foot. The longer this company functions the more employees they will dispose of through outsourcing, the internet and automation. They will do it as quickly as possible to save money. Dave said it himself in his little speech "there will be furloughs, upgrade USAirways.com and push internet bookings, gate checkers,etc.", all to rid themselves of the pesky, overpaid, lazy, good for nothing employees. Things haven't changed, the "Plan" is still the same. A lot of people will be gone no matter what. If they vote "yes" they get paid less to put up with all the crap, pay more for health benefits, lose their job in the near future and get less in unemployment. Flight benefits? They are almost useless anyway. A lot of employees that I know buy their tickets to guarantee that they get to their desination plus the fares are so cheap and will probably stay that way.

I think the members of the CWA and IAM have nothing to lose. If they're smart and look at the big picture the vote will be "NO". There is going to be a huge push for a "no" vote with the CWA members. As far as ALPA do what you think is right for that group but, don't push your needs on others.

 

[700UW]

USA320Pilot
I think the members of the CWA and IAM have nothing to lose. If they're smart and look at the big picture the vote will be "NO". There is going to be a huge push for a "no" vote with the CWA members. As far as ALPA do what you think is right for that group but, don't push your needs on others.

Great post Bobcat, words of wisdom!

 

[robbedagain]

what kind of payscale would those of us in the horrendous expressed mainline cities will face if there is another round of bankruptcy? i dont believe it is fair for th ecompany to take more stabs at the employees already in the dumpsters of mainline express (already topped at 13.00 an hr, far less than our express partners of continental delta connection and united as well as nwa and its affilate whose top pays ranges from 15 or 16 to almost 17 anhr) cities such as mine i dont know how it will affect us all but i sure as hell hope and pray for a miracle

 

[Tim Nelson]

Why was this thread started? If management wants to cash in its chips and file bankrupt then it goes bankrupt and there is nothing further workers can do. However, I don't think bankruptcy is much of a threat at this time....members been there and done that, and found out:

1. that 1113 letters aren't worth the paper they are printed on

2. that the Judge doesn't necessarily have horns. ALPA went to the judge instead of taking some flimsy post-termination retirement package and afterwards US AIRWAYS enhanced its original offer and settled with ALPA instead of going to arbitration.

3. Giving billions of dollars once again may only mean giving management more time to manage badly.

As a side, politically, the IAM will have to tow the no concession line. It's members simply have not shown or expressed the slightest interest in more concessions.

On the other hand, is there a way to get things done and get this company viable? Yes, and therein lies the hope for those who don't want to collect severance or unemployment.

regards,

 

[savyinvestor]

To All Naysayers,

Why are you guys picking on A320?

Is it because:

He is reminding us of the "reality" of this airline.
We are all in denial
We are afraid that the doors will be closed when we come to work next day
We will not be able to find a new job/career.

The non-serious people are burning the entire house with their negativity.

Your kidding right???????????? Savy :down:

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Everybody wants this airline to fail - Wall Street, the media, the competition - so where does that leave you the employee? I don't agree with USA320Pilot very much, but he's right about this whole thing coming down on the industry. Let's face it, paycuts are coming to EVERY legacy carrier. Our friends at Delta, NWA, CAL, UAL, know it's coming whether or not this airline remains in business. They may think it won't come if we go out of business, but how are they going to compete with JetBlue, Southwest, America West, Air Tran, and Virgin USA? As I said in another note, sit down, update your resume and reflect on where you've been with this company and whether or not you want it to continue or end. This is a deeply personal choice for each one of you. Look at what the company proposes and see how this will impact your life. I am not buying into the "fear factor", but look around the industry and you are all smart enough to figure out where you fit in or not. Good luck to all!

 

[Dizel8]

"One key point is that the company keeps asking the IAM to address the A320 outsourcing issues and the IAM refuses."

Not entirely true, the IAM said NO! Apparently the execs are really hard of hearing, perhaps that is why they are still trying to persuade a arbitrator to allow them to screw the IAM.

Wonder what you will answer, when they ask the mainline pilots, why Mesa can't fly the A-320.

Some people see the forest for the trees, some people refuse!

 

[700UW]

"One key point is that the company keeps asking the IAM to address the A320 outsourcing issues and the IAM refuses."

Not entirely true, the IAM said NO! Apparently the execs are really hard of hearing, perhaps that is why they are still trying to persuade a arbitrator to allow them to screw the IAM.

Wonder what you will answer, when they ask the mainline pilots, why Mesa can't fly the A-320.

Some people see the forest for the trees, some people refuse!

In late last year the company called the IAM to CCY they then handed the IAM a letter stating they were going to farmout the airbus work and then filed a grievance against the IAM.

So please tell me when and where the company offered the IAM to discuss the outsourcing.

The IAM provided the company with several ways to accomplish the work in-house and the company wanted no part of it.

The company has NEVER EVER asked the IAM to address the issue before they decided to outsource the work.

Exhibit #1
http://www.iam141m.org/10062003Ford.Letter.pdf

And note at the end of this letter they requested to use the FCMS, which is not for contract disputes.

October 6, 2003
Dispute Background
· The type of heavy maintenance work being subcontracted is called an “S- Checkâ€.

· Article 2 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) states that this work is to
be done by IAM-represented employees “wherever performed.â€

· Since the first CBA in 1949, the Company has never subcontracted heavy
maintenance work for any type of aircraft in its fleet.

· IAM-represented US Airways employees have performed, and currently perform,
heavy maintenance on all US Airways’ Boeing 737, 757 and 767 aircraft in
Pittsburgh, PA and Charlotte, NC.

· IAM-represented Mechanic & Related employees have performed, and currently
perform, A, B and C Checks on US Airways’ Airbus aircraft.

· The tooling and equipment required to perform “S-Checks†is the same as
required to perform “C-Checksâ€.

· US Airways has the hangar space, tools, equipment, facilities and trained
mechanics available to perform “S-Checks†while fulfilling its other maintenance
requirements.

· The type of work on S-Checks is no different from that which is performed in
earlier scheduled maintenance of the Airbus; there simply is more of it, exposing
more of the physical skeleton of the aircraft than in earlier scheduled checks.

· In 1999 contract negotiations, US Airways recognized that it did not have the
right to subcontract airframe heavy maintenance work. The Company sought to
obtain that subcontracting right from the IAM. The Union rejected the
Company’s proposal.

Major Dispute vs. Minor Dispute
· Major Dispute: A unilateral modification of the CBA that violates the status quo
provisions of the Railway Labor Act. A violation of the status quo pending
completion of the required procedures is a major dispute. Federal Courts can
enjoin a party from a certain action in a major dispute.

· Minor Dispute: An action arguably justified by the terms of the parties' CBA. A
minor dispute can be arbitrated to resolution.
Important Figures and Dates

· IAM District 141-M represents 5,000 (Active) US Airways Mechanic & Related
Employees.

· IAM District 141 represents the airline’s 4,450 (Active) Fleet Service Employees.
· Total US Airways Jet Aircraft Fleet: 279

· Total Airbus Fleet (A319, A320, A321, A330): 121
· April 12, 1949: IAM certified as bargaining representative for all Mechanic &
Related employees at All American Airways, predecessor to today’s US Airways.

· August 2, 1949: First IAM agreement signed.

· 1953: Name changed to Allegheny Airlines.

· 1968: Allegheny Airlines and Lake Central Airlines merge.

· 1972: Allegheny Airlines and Mohawk Airlines merge.

· October 28, 1979: Allegheny Airlines changed its name to USAir.

· 1986: USAir acquires Pacific Southwest Airlines (PSA).

· August 1989: USAir and Piedmont merge.

· February 27, 1997: USAir changes name to US Airways.

· August 11, 2002: US Airways enters bankruptcy.

· August 29, 2002: District 141 ratifies cost reduction proposal, District 141-M
rejects.

· September 17, 2002: District 141-M members ratify cost reduction proposal.

· January 10, 2003: All IAM members at US Airways accept additional work-rule
changes.

· March 31, 2003: US Airways emerges from bankruptcy.

· August 4, 2003: IAM learns that US Airways is considering subcontracting
Airbus heavy maintenance work. GVP Roach responds with letter to CEO Siegel.

· October 6, 2003: US Airways informs IAM it will subcontract Airbus heavy
maintenance.

 

[OldpropGuy]

Bla,bla bla snipped....
ALPA has recognized this, which is why Stephan told the AP last Wednesday that the new plan dramatically increases the chances that the union will be willing to accept another round of wage concessions that the airline says it needs to avoid a second trip into bankruptcy.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Well good for the union!!!

It would appear that the only problem is convincing all the employees to accept this thinking, and agree to suffer even more before the end!

I don't see it happening.......

Not even for you, DELETED BY MODERATOR

 

[9lives+1]

The score is 700uw 10.... usa320 pilot 2....l

 

[avek00]

Some thoughts:

1. A second BK won't be NEARLY as pretty as the first tour of creditor protection. Obtaining decent DIP loans, an equity sponsor, and meaningful emergence financing will prove next to impossible, as a Chapter 22 situation instills no confidence whatsoever in financiers.

2. IMO, the odds of US receiving 1113 approval to abrogate contracts borderlines on zero. The payscales and benefits currently enjoyed by most US workgroups are not out-of-line with industry-standard compensation; the fact that most US employees top out in their contracts due to seniority does not inherently make the contract voidable.