Why Would You Not Support The New Plan?
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
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USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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MWeiss:
MWeiss said: "Because, while the topic title was interesting, when taken with your five points, the whole thing comes across as another Save This A320 Pilot's Career topic. Whether that was your intent or not, that's what it sounds like."
USA320Pilot comments: I recognize perception is reality, but your comment is inaccurate. I am concerned about US airways surviving during the legacy carrier's demise, but I am more concerned about 28,000 jobs and the ability to seek new employment if necessary, while gainfully employed. For my family and I are earnings and security will not change whether or not US airways fails. My wife can return to the job market and I now have tow employment options if I elect to leave the company. In fact, our income could increase, but we would have to work more, which is not desirable.
Again, I strongly believe with industry unemployment at its current rate and the LCC's and RJ operators not having much difficulty finding employees, it would be much better for virtually every employee to have a job while they're looking for a job, versus living on unemployment with no benefits during the transition.
Regardless, the company has hired bankrputcy financial and legal advisors and is now preparing for a pre-packaged Chapter 11 filing with S.1113 and S.1114 motions, therfore, a serious decision could be forced on the unions shortly.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
MWeiss said: "Because, while the topic title was interesting, when taken with your five points, the whole thing comes across as another Save This A320 Pilot's Career topic. Whether that was your intent or not, that's what it sounds like."
USA320Pilot comments: I recognize perception is reality, but your comment is inaccurate. I am concerned about US airways surviving during the legacy carrier's demise, but I am more concerned about 28,000 jobs and the ability to seek new employment if necessary, while gainfully employed. For my family and I are earnings and security will not change whether or not US airways fails. My wife can return to the job market and I now have tow employment options if I elect to leave the company. In fact, our income could increase, but we would have to work more, which is not desirable.
Again, I strongly believe with industry unemployment at its current rate and the LCC's and RJ operators not having much difficulty finding employees, it would be much better for virtually every employee to have a job while they're looking for a job, versus living on unemployment with no benefits during the transition.
Regardless, the company has hired bankrputcy financial and legal advisors and is now preparing for a pre-packaged Chapter 11 filing with S.1113 and S.1114 motions, therfore, a serious decision could be forced on the unions shortly.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
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Using labor as a scapegoat is just ignoring the REAL problem. Upon examining UAIR's balance sheet, I noticed HUGE costs and payments associated with two categories: OTHER and GOODWILL. Both of these should have been ZEROED OUT in the last chapter 11, so why do they still exist? All that the labor groups are doing by accepting the blame and cuts by management is lowering the bar throughout the industry, and allowing PISS POOR management to flourish. If these guys think that ANY UAIR employees will vote for their own furlough or even large cuts, then they're NUTS! No matter what the employees do these "financial geniuses" continue to kill any access to financial markets by dropping such terms as "chapter 11" as a way to fix this company. What bank or other institution is gonna invest a nickel in UAIR with folks talking about such things? IMO, management has made NO CHANGES since the last CEO left in shame, and until they do they should not benefit from their ineptitude!mweiss said:
OP
USA320Pilot
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Just one more point...
In my opinion, furloughs are not management’s objective but could be used as a tactic or threat to obtain cuts in other areas, but with the RC4 not using all of ALPA’s resources and making decisions by them self, could we see deeper cuts and unnecessary collateral damage because of the “roll call’ issue?
For example, when we take about furloughs let’s logically look at this issue and the new business plan from a strategic planning perspective?
US Airways has said the new plan will create additional furloughs. Are they distasteful? Absolutely, but if that’s management’s intention than they are going to come one way or another. Either through bankruptcy or liquidation, thus what can any union do to help it’s members the most.
Obtain the best deal possible, which is likely before the Chapter 11 filing. Why?
Even if a person loses their job over the new labor accords they will be better off if the company survives. With the company in operation a furloughed employee would receive severance pay, unemployment, COBRA medical insurance, recall rights, pass privileges, MDA/J4J opportunities (some employees), and recall rights.
That’s better than a Chapter 7 filing where all you get is unemployment and government assistance.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
In my opinion, furloughs are not management’s objective but could be used as a tactic or threat to obtain cuts in other areas, but with the RC4 not using all of ALPA’s resources and making decisions by them self, could we see deeper cuts and unnecessary collateral damage because of the “roll call’ issue?
For example, when we take about furloughs let’s logically look at this issue and the new business plan from a strategic planning perspective?
US Airways has said the new plan will create additional furloughs. Are they distasteful? Absolutely, but if that’s management’s intention than they are going to come one way or another. Either through bankruptcy or liquidation, thus what can any union do to help it’s members the most.
Obtain the best deal possible, which is likely before the Chapter 11 filing. Why?
Even if a person loses their job over the new labor accords they will be better off if the company survives. With the company in operation a furloughed employee would receive severance pay, unemployment, COBRA medical insurance, recall rights, pass privileges, MDA/J4J opportunities (some employees), and recall rights.
That’s better than a Chapter 7 filing where all you get is unemployment and government assistance.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
usairways_vote_NO
Veteran
- Sep 9, 2002
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USA320Pilot
There you go again skirting the debate. You started this thread with some questions to debate now debate them. You say no one wants to debate I am saying debate me and the rest that answered our question. Heck you won't even acknowledge me let alone debate me and you want to be taken seriously? You want credibility you have to earn it.
There you go again skirting the debate. You started this thread with some questions to debate now debate them. You say no one wants to debate I am saying debate me and the rest that answered our question. Heck you won't even acknowledge me let alone debate me and you want to be taken seriously? You want credibility you have to earn it.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
A320Pilot says: "In my opinion, this message board has deteriorated in substance with less constructive debate and decorum, to one that's centered on comments that indicate emotion, bitterness, venting, and anger. That’s too bad because this could be a great vehicle to constructively discuss our collective issues."
Eye says: Duh! And, why is that? Perhaps, people simply don't give a rat's a$$ what your opinion is anymore. As they say the South: "I hate that for you."
A320Pilot asks: 1. Why are low cost competitors making money and every legacy airline losing billions of dollars?
Eye says: Did it ever occur to you at this very point in time that no airline is making money due to fuel prices? Even Southwest is barely breaking even (if at all). Plus, do you honestly think Southwest is making money on $29 airfares to PVD etc? Hell no. They've priced their product BELOW COST...what happens? It's airline holocaust. IMHO, the airlines are losing money today simply because they put all their eggs in one basket hoping to drive their competitors out of business. Problem is most are only beginning to look inward at their own inefficiencies. US Airways has a two year head start. Maybe it won't be enough, but damn it the employees gave it their best shot.
A320Pilot asks: 2. If US Airways continues to lose money and violates the terms of the loan guarantee, what is the likely outcome for the company?
Eye says: Why ask such an obvious question?
A320Pilot asks: 3. If US Airways enters bankruptcy and elects to execute a formal reorganization, what’s the likely outcome for each labor group?
Eye says: Rioting, mass-hysteria, used-toilet-papering a certain pilot's house.. (joke yuk, yuk)
A320Pilot asks: 4. If US Airways enters bankruptcy and liquidates, what benefits do employees receive?
Eye says: Unemployment compensation and a chance at a real life for a change. Maybe it will be rough going for awhile, but it beats being told day in and day out that you are worth less and less.
A320Pilot asks: 5. If US Airways fails, what are your specific job options?
Eye says: Already employed outside the industry. Have been for years. I saw the handwriting on the wall years ago. And I will tell everyone else on here including you A320pilot, US Airways should not be your whole life. Lastly, a little tip for you A320pilot: Do you honestly think your postings on here make a difference? Did it ever occur to you that you are actually hurting the very cause you abundantly profess on here? It's quite clear you have lost patience with the flock on these forums and continue to push issues that are personal for each employee at the company. I end my post with one of Aesop's fables. Guess who you are USA320pilot.
The Fly and the Draught-Mule
A FLY sat on the axle-tree of a chariot, and addressing the
Draught-Mule said, "How slow you are! Why do you not go faster?
See if I do not prick your neck with my sting." The Draught-Mule
replied, "I do not heed your threats; I only care for him who
sits above you, and who quickens my pace with his whip, or holds
me back with the reins. Away, therefore, with your insolence,
for I know well when to go fast, and when to go slow."
Eye says: Duh! And, why is that? Perhaps, people simply don't give a rat's a$$ what your opinion is anymore. As they say the South: "I hate that for you."
A320Pilot asks: 1. Why are low cost competitors making money and every legacy airline losing billions of dollars?
Eye says: Did it ever occur to you at this very point in time that no airline is making money due to fuel prices? Even Southwest is barely breaking even (if at all). Plus, do you honestly think Southwest is making money on $29 airfares to PVD etc? Hell no. They've priced their product BELOW COST...what happens? It's airline holocaust. IMHO, the airlines are losing money today simply because they put all their eggs in one basket hoping to drive their competitors out of business. Problem is most are only beginning to look inward at their own inefficiencies. US Airways has a two year head start. Maybe it won't be enough, but damn it the employees gave it their best shot.
A320Pilot asks: 2. If US Airways continues to lose money and violates the terms of the loan guarantee, what is the likely outcome for the company?
Eye says: Why ask such an obvious question?
A320Pilot asks: 3. If US Airways enters bankruptcy and elects to execute a formal reorganization, what’s the likely outcome for each labor group?
Eye says: Rioting, mass-hysteria, used-toilet-papering a certain pilot's house.. (joke yuk, yuk)
A320Pilot asks: 4. If US Airways enters bankruptcy and liquidates, what benefits do employees receive?
Eye says: Unemployment compensation and a chance at a real life for a change. Maybe it will be rough going for awhile, but it beats being told day in and day out that you are worth less and less.
A320Pilot asks: 5. If US Airways fails, what are your specific job options?
Eye says: Already employed outside the industry. Have been for years. I saw the handwriting on the wall years ago. And I will tell everyone else on here including you A320pilot, US Airways should not be your whole life. Lastly, a little tip for you A320pilot: Do you honestly think your postings on here make a difference? Did it ever occur to you that you are actually hurting the very cause you abundantly profess on here? It's quite clear you have lost patience with the flock on these forums and continue to push issues that are personal for each employee at the company. I end my post with one of Aesop's fables. Guess who you are USA320pilot.
The Fly and the Draught-Mule
A FLY sat on the axle-tree of a chariot, and addressing the
Draught-Mule said, "How slow you are! Why do you not go faster?
See if I do not prick your neck with my sting." The Draught-Mule
replied, "I do not heed your threats; I only care for him who
sits above you, and who quickens my pace with his whip, or holds
me back with the reins. Away, therefore, with your insolence,
for I know well when to go fast, and when to go slow."
stoopidute442
Advanced
1. Junior work force, management that dosent blow.
2. Failure
3. mine will be gone for sure....
4. full pay to the last day!
5. unemployment as long as possible...then try for the rest of my life to find a job where i can do nothing, and i do mean NOTHING, for great wages.
2. Failure
3. mine will be gone for sure....
4. full pay to the last day!
5. unemployment as long as possible...then try for the rest of my life to find a job where i can do nothing, and i do mean NOTHING, for great wages.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
USA320pilot said: "Furthermore, US Airways’ brash moves could throw the other network carriers, especially United Airlines and Delta Air Lines, into turmoil where US Airways and its employees could be beneficiaries at the expense of the other airlines..."
and this: "...United Airlines will not receive the loan guarantee and as such may need to seek other alternatives, where a restructured US Airways and other airlines could be beneficiaries..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
FINALLY REVEALED!!
Well folks, this just about sums it for all to see. The cat is finally out of the bag.
USA320pilot's motivation has always been, and still is, to benefit his own career at the expense of others. There is reason to believe that he originally went to work for United as a strike loomed, in hopes of benefitting at other's expense. It was again revealed in his expectations of advancement in 2000 during the UA/US aquisition talks. He has preached to his fellow employees for over 2 years to take their medicine so he will benefit. He is still at it, as evidenced this time by his own words.
Of course he will claim that I am attacking him, and continue to claim that he only wants to see US prosper for the sake of thousands of his fellow employees. (Who, by the way, don't even like or respect him.)
Don't be fooled. What we have here is a very self-serving motivation. For someone to try to sway others by hailing advancement at another's expense is IMO, desperate and sinks to new depths.
Very interesting and revealing...
Does anyone here disagree?
and this: "...United Airlines will not receive the loan guarantee and as such may need to seek other alternatives, where a restructured US Airways and other airlines could be beneficiaries..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
FINALLY REVEALED!!
Well folks, this just about sums it for all to see. The cat is finally out of the bag.
USA320pilot's motivation has always been, and still is, to benefit his own career at the expense of others. There is reason to believe that he originally went to work for United as a strike loomed, in hopes of benefitting at other's expense. It was again revealed in his expectations of advancement in 2000 during the UA/US aquisition talks. He has preached to his fellow employees for over 2 years to take their medicine so he will benefit. He is still at it, as evidenced this time by his own words.
Of course he will claim that I am attacking him, and continue to claim that he only wants to see US prosper for the sake of thousands of his fellow employees. (Who, by the way, don't even like or respect him.)
Don't be fooled. What we have here is a very self-serving motivation. For someone to try to sway others by hailing advancement at another's expense is IMO, desperate and sinks to new depths.
Very interesting and revealing...
Does anyone here disagree?
bigbusdrvr
Senior
- Mar 2, 2003
- 366
- 12
- Banned
- #57
Absolutely agree......767jetz said:
I'm hopeing for a chance at your 767's myself!!!!
Love your optimism, but I believe your CEO has let the cat out of the UAL bag....Maybe he was hinting at selling some 767's along with routes....
FlyingHippie
Senior
- Jan 27, 2003
- 283
- 0
Do you kids want to step outside into the playground and have a go at each other? i think USA320pilot, 767jetz, bigbusdrivr are being quite pathetic. i personally don't wish to fly any plane at the expense of another pilot's career. i still have ethics, do you guys? usapilot everybody knows your history at the company. Without going into details you have a sore spot for UAL that stems from a certain period in the mid 80s, just knock it off.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
767jetz,767jetz said:
Asolutely revealed. USA320 knows very well that if U gets all the concessions that is proposed, we will be in the double digit furloughs, all for the sake of 20% that get to stay. (Not that folks will want to when all is in place). He knows it,management knows it, and I know it. Also, Bigbusdrvr knows it...
Bigbusdrvr,
stop putting on a cherade on this board by posing as two posters!
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
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- 7,430
If perception is reality, then you can never be deceived. Or misspell anything either.USA320Pilot said:
According to the argument that perception is reality, there is no such thing as dyslexia.
No wonder you never see yourself to have been wrong; it is all of us that have the perception problem that does not comport to reality. Please forgive us.
But may I commend you on your successful mastery of the distinction of "to" and "too". Your previous perception has evidently matured.
Bravo!
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